Post a pic of you

[cholmberg]

Noah,

your son and my daughter share the same birthday. Except my daughter just turned  three. I'm fairly new to this place. I've been lurking for a while, I read this entire thread. Lots of interesting people. Not quite brave enough to post a pic of myself just yet.

Candice

[Noah]

Here I am in 'Kiss Me Kate' . . .

His Star, 'Kiss Me Kate' is one of my favorite older musicals.  It is the one with Kathryn Grayson and Howard Keel.  Cholmberg, that is neat.  I was hoping my son would have my birthday.  The reason for this is that my wife and I have the same birthday.  If my son did too, then I would only have to remember one date!!   
Best, Noah

[Jeremy W]

Here is a picture of my wife and I on the way to get married on June 1.

[ecoli]

Look at all the pretty ladies!

[basemetal]

Roland Mueller:

Did you know that you favor Stanley Kubric quite a bit?

Also, reminds me how many coins I've bought "Eyes wide Shut"
 

[*Alex]

Since "Post a pic of you", now includes scenery, here is a nice tranquil scene which I took here in my homeland. I use the picture as my desktop probably because the small orange "blobs" in the swan boat are my four children  .

Alex.

[Automan]

Who can guess where this pic of Automan was taken?

//Auto

[His Star]

Who can guess where this pic of Automan was taken?

Haifa?

[Roland Mueller]

Thank you for your compliments but, I am a very common Müller (Miller in english). Sometimes I was asked for an autogram from "Sean Connery". Sorry for the disappointment of people if they realise that am just Müller!
I am happy not to be a Connery so I have my own life and has it not share with hundered thousends and I have my lull for greek coins.

Automan, could it be Creta?

Regards
roland

[slokind]

Re: Automan on Walls.  Great walls.  City walls.  Priene?  Messene?  Double walls.  Could be Mycenaean but more likely what at a glance are called "4th century".  I don't recall exactly where he is, but where is Sweden excavating currently?  Pat L.

[moonmoth]

Is that the centre filling of a wall, rubble and cement?  Have the ashlar blocks been robbed to build other things? 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Yes, that's the rubble centre he's standing on. You can see some of the ashlar left at the bottom, so it's a wall someone was prepared to spend a good bit of money on; squared stone doesn't come cheap in any era unless it's salvaged from somewhere. Near the bottom you can see ashlar blocks which bound the outer shell securely to the core, so it's intended as a strong wall, probably a fortification. The concrete binding the core points to the same conclusion; it's not just loose rubble.

[*Alex]

Re: Automan on wall.

Not Mycenae Pat, the construction is completely different.

The concrete and rubble core would point to the walls being from the Roman era.  The ashlars are fairly small, finely finished, rectangular and regular so I am thinking monumental building rather than fortification. The walls also appear to stand in a country with a generally dry warm climate since they seem to have suffered more from stone robbing than from erosion. Well that really narrows it down  so since there is not much else to go on I think Automan will have to tell us the location himself.

Alex.

[slokind]

NO ONE mentioned Mycenae.  Nor Tiryns, nor Asine, even.  Indeed, if it really has mortar rather than clay rubble, it isn't any Bronze Age wall (Mycenaean, let alone Minoan).  I thought of Gynaikokastro, but nothing preserved so high there.  I thought of Megalopolis, but again it didn't quite look like it.  I mentioned Messene in Laconia because it is so well preserved, and I haven't had a chance to walk the full circuit, and Priene for the same reason.  Looks like too steep terrain for Miletus, but again I haven't seen all of it.  Then there's Epirus, but it's been 45 years since I was there; lots of walls.  But I haven't been to any of the walls and gates in Cilicia, where the indefatigable Ramsay recorded so many Pauline (his interest) cities.  There are more Late Classical-Early Hellenistic walls than almost anyone, except someone like Eugene Vanderpool, ever visited in a lifetime.  And I hardly think it's any part of the Long Walls to Piraeus, though who has visited all the remains of them both?  Eleusis just occurred to me, though the hints of landscape look wrong; folks tend to forget the walls of Eleusis.  Thebes?  Eleutherae?  Vergina?  What about Apollonia in modern Albania?  I never got a chance to go to Albania.
Well, what is it?  Double walls are very hard to identify except in views from low-flying airplanes.  Almost all of them are awesomely well made.
Pat L.

[*Alex]

Could be Mycenaean but more likely what at a glance are called "4th century".  I don't recall exactly where he is, but where is Sweden excavating currently?  Pat L.

I didn't mean to cause any offence, Pat.  I am aware of your credentials, I know that you are well-travelled but I thought, with your above remark, perhaps you hadn't actually been to Mycenae. Stupid of me, it is inconceivable that you wouldn't have visited such a famous site and I humbly apologise  . It is thirty years since I was there and, as you obviously know, the bronze-age construction is entirely different, that is why I mentioned it.
As to Automan's wall. Although it could be virtually anywhere and a mortar and rubble core is typically Roman, it has a Greek feel to it  .

Alex.

[gavignano]

Cyprus?

[moonmoth]

Well, coming from someone who hasn't visited many Roman sites, that looks like a pretty impressive demonstration of the strength of the cement mix used by the Romans.  It raises a question.  In Rome, it would have been easy to gather the required materials.  The raw ingredients were limestone and volcanic ash, and there was a volcano on their doorstep. But what did they use elsewhere?  Volcanos could not have always been handy.

[slokind]

Mortar the whole empire had, and Early Byzantine mortair-and-brick walls are full of it, but they didn't have the pozzolana to make hydraulic cement for true Roman concrete of the kind in the Pantheon and the aula of the Mercati Traiani.  I must agree with *Alex that the fill of that double wall does look more like such mortar than like clay (though clayey soils come in colors), and if so it may be later than its general aspect suggests.  Gavignano said "Cyprus", and that sounds like a real possibility (but I haven't been there!).  When does mortar come in?  Earlier east of the Greek peninsula than in it?  Suddenly I'm not sure, in fact I am aware that I never asked myself that question before.  If it's anything like the mortar used with brick in Louisiana, it is quite properly confined to non-bearing functions, since its compressive strength isn't very great.  Mortar calls for re-pointing.  Not, however, in the core of a double wall.  But some of you guys will know more about mortar than I do.
One thing: that ashlar looks like poros (demotic: pouri), since the color in the photo seems very real.
Pat L.

[*Alex]

One other thing came to me examining the picture. Do you suppose that  the mortar is original or could it be the work of modern conservationists?

Alex.

[moonmoth]

There are many kinds of mortar, but many of them are less durable than the material they cement together, hence the need to re-point old buildings.  Here's an interesting article by a building conservator:

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/limegauging/limegauging.htm

The Roman type (which was known long before, though perhaps not systematised) was particularly durable, probably at least in part because it was not porous and therefore not subject to weathering through frost.  It would even set under water.

That core looks as though it is made with pretty durable cement, to still be standing like that.   Even if it has been reinforced in modern times, it stands quite high and solid.  So it is likely that there is suitable pozzolanic material within  reasonable reach, probably no more than a few miles; and there must also be structures nearby built with the Roman ashlar you can no longer see in the picture. 

Concrete (cement mixed with aggregate) has a pretty good compressive strength usually, and many buildings have been made out of it.  There's a very pretty church near here made of light pink concrete.

Bill

[Automan]

Wow! I didn't realise it would raise such a discussion!

So, here is the answer: I am, in fact, standing on a wall erected by another civilisation entirely; It's the Great Wall of China!

This section, "HuangHua" (=Yellow Flower, 60 km outside of Beijing), is almost entirely untouched since it was first build during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644). If you get a chance to visit the Great Wall, I really recommend this site. It is quite "un-touristified", and my party were basically the only people there. If you are a bit more adventurous than I am, there are better preserved sections of the wall at HuangHua, but getting to them requires hiking gear and you go there at your own risk!

The square blocks are apparently lime stone, and a cement mix using rice and egg whites was used. Most of the center of the wall was just filled with rubble (dirt, stones etc).

There are, of course, other portions of the wall that have been restored to look very much like when it was originally build (such as Badaling and Simitai), but there tourists flock in huge numbers.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not visible from the Moon (and claims to that effect are currently being removed from Chinese school books).

//Auto

[LordBest]

Ah, the Great Maginot Wall of China. Cant wait to see it myself. I've never believed the stories that its visible from space. Its what, four meters wide at the widest points? It would be like trying to spot a single cat hair from two stories up.
Cement was of course known long before the Romans, what the Romans did waas refine the ingredients and the mix, which improved the results dramatically. For example earlier cement took centuries or even longer to set all teh way through depending on the amount used. A few years ago at an archaeological dig in norhten greece a Greek cement slab was cracked and the inside started to ooze out, theslab was dated to around 280BC. The Romans fixed that and also developed cement that would set under water. If they could not get volcanic ash they used to use ground up pottery, a great deal of Roman hydraulic cement is a pleasant pink colour as a result.
                                                                             LordBest.

[*Alex]

The Great Wall of China  !  I said it had a Greek feel to it  .

Alex.

[moonmoth]

Egg white and rice.  Well, at least it sounds more tasty than volcanic ash and quicklime.  I suspect there must have been other ingredients too, or something would have eaten it.

In fact, I now imagine a scenario where the peasants are saying "Need more egg white and rice for the next section, boss" and promptly eating that and substituting earth and excrement.

[LordBest]

It was basically cement mixed with egg white and powdered sticky rice, i believe. Rice was also used in the bricks that many of the better preserved sections are made of, the rice seems to protect against erosion rather well.
                                                                LordBest.