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Author Topic: Old Coins from Turkey  (Read 512 times)

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Lydia1948 X

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Old Coins from Turkey
« on: November 30, 2023, 02:49:37 pm »
I bought some coins from a guy in turkey. I need help learning if they are authentic or fakes.

Offline Victor C

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2023, 03:57:35 pm »
They are poor tourist fakes.
Victor Clark

LRB gallery

Lydia1948 X

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2023, 05:33:14 pm »
Quote from: Victor C on November 30, 2023, 03:57:35 pm
They are poor tourist fakes.

Oof 😣 darn!

Can you give me some details as to how to tell? Like, what are you noticing?

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2023, 07:57:13 pm »
At first sight, the style is completely off. Nothing in common with ancient coins. Also the section «  Fake Coins Reports » of Forvm is full of fantasy coins from Turkey like yours.
DT

https://www.propertyturkey.com/blog-turkey/common-tourist-scams-to-avoid-in-turkey

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2023, 02:15:28 am »
Also, to add, it is illegal to take ancient artifacts, including coins, out of Turkey unless you get the proper forms and government approvals.

Virgil

Offline Altamura

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2023, 02:55:38 am »
... At first sight, the style is completely off. Nothing in common with ancient coins. ...
For example a genuine stater of Pharnabazos looks like this: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=10655707
You see the difference :)?

... it is illegal to take ancient artifacts, including coins, out of Turkey unless you get the proper forms and government approvals. ...
And if you don't have the papers you are close to prison >:(.

Regards

Altamura

Offline SC

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2023, 08:35:08 am »
In addition to comparing them with the original issues - you have coins that supposedly span well over 1000 years but are all have the same features in terms of flan, fabrication, material, etc.

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2023, 12:56:30 pm »
If someone has time to identify and describe them - fake coin reports, please.
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Offline Din X

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2023, 09:50:15 am »
The 1,3 and 7th are cast fakes from Slavey replicas.
I am starting with digitalisation of my fake coin (about 2000 without casts) and dies collection (about 500).
I´ve started with descriptions in German, high res. pictures will hopefully follow next year.

Here are my descriptions for this 3 coins in German and then translated with deepl into English

Fake number 7 is idnetical with fake 6 in my collecton

Region: Sizilien
Prägestätte: Syrakus
Herausgeber/Herrscher: Agathokles
Nominal: Stater
Material: Silber
Vorderseite:  Kopf der Athena nach rechts mit korinthischem Helm, verziert mit Greif, links Trophäe
Rückseite: Pegasos nach links fliegend, Legende ΣYPAKOΣIΩN ringsum, Triskeles
Unterschiede zu echten Stücken: Unter dem Hals auf dem Avers ΣA
Gewicht:
Durchmesser
Stempelstellung: 12 Uhr
Publiziert/Veröffentlicht/Referenz:  The Celator Ausgabe 13 vom 01. Januar 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend von B. C. Demetriadi Seite 25, Bildtafel „Slavey: Figure 6“

Region: Sicily
Mint: Syracuse
Issuer/Ruler: Agathocles
Denomination: Stater
Material: Silver
Obverse: Head of Athena to the right with Corinthian helmet, decorated with griffin, trophy to the left
Reverse: Pegasus flying to the left, legend ΣYPAKOΣIΩN all around, triskeles
Differences to genuine pieces: Under the neck on the obverse ΣA
Weight:
Diameter
Stamp position: 12 o'clock
Published/issued/reference: The Celator issue 13 of January 01, 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend by B. C. Demetriadi page 25, plate "Slavey: Figure 6"

Number 1 is number 103 in my collection

Region:
Prägestätte:
Datierung: Römische Republik (Imperatorische Prägung)
Dargestellte/r: Sextus Pompeius
Münzherr: Sextus Pompeius
Nominal: Denar
Material: Silber
Vorderseite:  MAG PIVS IMP ITER, Kopf des Pompeius Magnus nach rechts zwischen Capis/Kanne/Krug und Lituus
Rückseite: PRAEF / CLAS ET ORAE / MARIT EX S C, Neptun stehend nach links, den Fuß auf den Bug gesetzt, eine Aplustre haltend; zu beiden Seiten einer der katanischen Brüder (Anapias und Amphinomus), die jeweils einen ihrer Elternteile auf den Schultern tragen
Unterschiede zu echten Stücken:
Gewicht:
Durchmesser:
Stempelstellung: 12 Uhr
Publiziert/Veröffentlicht/Referenz: The Celator Ausgabe 13 vom 01. Januar 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend von B. C. Demetriadi Seite 25, Bildtafel
Modern Forgeries of Greek and RomanCoins von D.Dimitrov, I.Prokopov, B.Kolev, Sofia 1997, Seite 27 Nummer 69

Region:
Mint:
Date: Roman Republic (imperial coinage)
Person depicted: Sextus Pompeius
Coiner: Sextus Pompeius
Nominal: Denarius
Material: Silver
Obverse: MAG PIVS IMP ITER, head of Pompeius Magnus to the right between capis/jug/jug and lituus
Reverse: PRAEF / CLAS ET ORAE / MARIT EX S C, Neptune standing to the left, his foot on the prow, holding an aplustre; on either side one of the Catanian brothers (Anapias and Amphinomus), each carrying one of their parents on their shoulders
Differences to genuine pieces:
Weight:
Diameter:
Stamp position: 12 o'clock
Published/Reference: The Celator issue 13 of January 01, 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend by B. C. Demetriadi page 25, plate
Modern Forgeries of Greek and RomanCoins by D. Dimitrov, I. Prokopov, B. Kolev, Sofia 1997, page 27 number 69

Number 3 is number 153 in my collection

Region:
Prägestätte: Rom
Datierung: Römische Republik
Dargestellte/r: Apollo oder Vejovis
Münzherr: L. Caesius
Nominal: Denar
Material: Silber
Vorderseite:  Diademierte Büste einer männlichen Gottheit (Apollo oder Vejovis?) nach links, die vordere Schulter drapiert, in der rechten Hand ein Blitzbündel haltend
Rückseite: Lares Praestiten halbrechts sitzend, jeder hält einen geerdeten Langstab in der linken Hand, Hund halbrechts dazwischen stehend, Nase in der Luft, Hinterkopf von der rechten Hand des weiteren Lar gestreichelt, darüber Büste des Vulkans nach links, darunter L CAESI
Unterschiede zu echten Stücken:
Gewicht:
Durchmesser:
Stempelstellung: 12 Uhr
Publiziert/Veröffentlicht/Referenz: The Celator Ausgabe 13 vom 01. Januar 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend von B. C. Demetriadi Seite 25, Bildtafel
IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 11 No.1 1986 Page 7 Fig 8

Region:
Mint: Rome
Date: Roman Republic
Depicted: Apollo or Vejovis
Master of the mint: L. Caesius
Denomination: Denarius
Material: Silver
Obverse: Diademed bust of a male deity (Apollo or Vejovis?) to the left, his front shoulder draped, holding a bundle of lightning in his right hand
Reverse: Lares Praestites seated half-right, each holding a grounded long staff in the left hand, dog standing half-right between them, nose in the air, back of the head stroked by the right hand of the other Lar, above bust of the volcano to the left, below L CAESI
Differences to genuine pieces:
Weight:
Diameter:
Stamp position: 12 o'clock
Published/issued/reference: The Celator issue 13 of January 01, 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend by B. C. Demetriadi page 25, plate
IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 11 No.1 1986 Page 7 Fig 8

Slavey pretends that numbe 87 is not from him the others ones he confirmed.

Literature concerning Slavey


Classical Deception: Counterfeits, Forgeries and Reproductions of ancient coins von Wayne G. Sayles, 2001 (Seite 87-89) 
The Celator Ausgabe 13 vom 01. Januar 1999: Slavey: the truth behind the legend von B. C. Demetriadi (Seite 20-25)
The Celator Ausgabe 14 vom 4. April 2000: The Slavey Interview-Part I von Bill Puetz (Seite 18+20+22+24) 
The Celator Ausgabe 14 vom 5. Mai 2000: The Slavey Interview-Part II von Bill Puetz (Seite 31-33) 
World Coin News: Counterfeiter or artist? Bulgarian´s work renowned", 11. April 1994 von Stanley L. Flegler (Seite 30-33)
Modern Forgeries of Greek and RomanCoins von D.Dimitrov, I.Prokopov, B.Kolev, Sofia 1997
Modern counterfeits and replicas of ancient Greek and Roman coins from Bulgaria, von Ilya Prokopov, Kostadin Kissyov, Eugeni Paunov, Sofia 2003







 


Offline Din X

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2023, 09:51:08 am »
My Slavey die ^^

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2023, 09:57:50 am »
Quote
I am starting with digitalisation of my fake coin (about 2000 without casts) and dies collection (about 500).

Wow!

That Slavey die is superb. I wonder if he ever found any other outlet for his artistic and engraving talents ?

Offline Din X

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2023, 10:08:46 am »
Slavey is cutting gems too see number  59+60.
His prices are very fair and quality is high.

Offline Din X

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2023, 10:10:58 am »
Number 5 Tranquillina is most likely from Petar Petrov, I could not find it in his catalogues but I was fast looking so I probably missed it.

Here is one from the same dies in fake reports but the attribution to Slavey is 100% wrong

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=7479

I have several hundred fakes of Petar Petrov but his doing dies like there is no tomorrow, most likely the most active artist or forger nowadays.
I am missing many and I do not have this one.

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2023, 09:51:18 am »
Soft details. like worn soap!

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Old Coins from Turkey
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2023, 11:46:12 am »
Fake coin reports done? Or just posting here?
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