Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 1 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 1 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Ancient metal values and ratios - standards?  (Read 2587 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Russ

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
Ancient metal values and ratios - standards?
« on: May 11, 2013, 10:44:27 pm »
Hi Folks,

     Just a question...

     Did the ancient Greeks and Romans have set value ratios for their metals and coins? By this I mean - did 1 weight of gold equal N weights of silver or N weights of bronze? I suppose this standard must have fluctuated over the years due to economic conditions or crooked rulers, but I still think some kind of standard must have existed.
     Thanks.

Russ

Offline Sap

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • It's already tomorrow in Australia.
Re: Ancient metal values and ratios - standards?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 11:12:02 pm »
At any given time, gold and silver were usually pegged to each other at a fixed ratio, though the ration changed slowly over time. The ratio can never be constant for too long, due to supply and demand - the two metals are mined at different rates, altering the relative abundances and therefore the supply. Any attempt by a government, either ancient or modern, to keep a bimetallic coinage system in place without taking this into account will eventually devolve into a de facto monometallic currency, as either the gold or silver coinage will be perceived as being undervalued and pulled from circulation - a classic application of Gresham's Law. Different Greek states held different gold:silver ratios, but it tended to fluctuate around 10:1. Augustus fixed the early Imperial ratio at 12.5:1, but it drifted away from this from the time of Nero.

Base-metal coins were a different matter; apart from the very earliest cast bronze coins, nobody seemed to expect or demand that the copper coins contained "full metal value". People were content to let the local government decree that certain coins had certain values - so in that sense, virtually all ancient bronze coinages were token coinages, much like modern coins today are. Again, the Roman system is the best-documented one, with the sestertius being 1/4 of a denarius, or 1/100th of an aureus. The denominations were fixed, but the weights were not; a dupondius did not necessarily weigh half that of a sestertius. The exchange values and names of many of the Greek and Roman Provincial coins are unknown, which is why the catalogues simply label them by diameter (eg. "AE25") instead of giving them a name.
I'll have to learn Latin someday.

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: Ancient metal values and ratios - standards?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 06:28:16 am »
At any given time, gold and silver were usually pegged to each other at a fixed ratio, though the ration changed slowly over time. The ratio can never be constant for too long, due to supply and demand - the two metals are mined at different rates, altering the relative abundances and therefore the supply. Any attempt by a government, either ancient or modern, to keep a bimetallic coinage system in place without taking this into account will eventually devolve into a de facto monometallic currency, as either the gold or silver coinage will be perceived as being undervalued and pulled from circulation - a classic application of Gresham's Law. Different Greek states held different gold:silver ratios, but it tended to fluctuate around 10:1. Augustus fixed the early Imperial ratio at 12.5:1, but it drifted away from this from the time of Nero.

Base-metal coins were a different matter; apart from the very earliest cast bronze coins, nobody seemed to expect or demand that the copper coins contained "full metal value". People were content to let the local government decree that certain coins had certain values - so in that sense, virtually all ancient bronze coinages were token coinages, much like modern coins today are. Again, the Roman system is the best-documented one, with the sestertius being 1/4 of a denarius, or 1/100th of an aureus. The denominations were fixed, but the weights were not; a dupondius did not necessarily weigh half that of a sestertius. The exchange values and names of many of the Greek and Roman Provincial coins are unknown, which is why the catalogues simply label them by diameter (eg. "AE25") instead of giving them a name.

 +++

A lot of wisdom in this post. Sap writes from a Roman Imperial perspective but the same issues, e.g. gradually-shifting AE:AR:AV exchange ratios, use of token bronze, applied in the Roman Republic. Whilst the AR:AE ratio is generally taken to have been about 120, in copper-rich etruria and in the Roman Republic in the third century BC it might have been as high as 250, and in the first century BC it might have been below 100. In all eras, bronze was often issued lighter, i.e. implying a lower AR:AE ratio for coin than for bullion. Whilst 12.5 is the generally accepted AU:AR ratio at Rome, one gold issue with clear value marks (XX,XXXX,LX) that can be compared with value marks on silver (X,V,IIS) implies an AU:AR ratio of 8.

Of relevance to the original question: there is little documentary evidence for the "price of bullion" in terms of money, and what there is, is confusing and difficult to interpret. Indeed there may not have been a liquid market in bullion at times: mines or large-scale bullion supply may have been controlled by the government or publicani (contractors) and transfer prices may have been as much about politics as economics. Of course there had to be market supplies of bullion in the cities for flatware, sculpture and jewelry, but when mine-supply was often state controlled such prices may have been decreed a little above the intrinsic value of coin so as not to encourage melting of coin, nor encourage hoarding of bullion! As bronze bullion was inconvenient to hoard as a store of value, it made bronze coin more attractive for token coin production, as Sap suggests. But, in turn, this at times encouraged the wide-spread manufacture of bronze imitation coin. One can tell a lot from the coinage itself, as well as from the nature of hoarding.

Offline Russ

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
Re: Ancient metal values and ratios - standards?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 06:55:24 pm »
Hi Sap and Andrew,

     Thank you very much for your fascinating and informative responses - much appreciated.

Russ

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity