Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 1 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 1 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!  (Read 5854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« on: December 02, 2013, 03:39:07 pm »
I picked up an interesting (and amusing item) for my first antiquity:

Large Faience Egyptian Amulet of a Dwarf.
A large faience amulet of a dwarf with large phallus, Late Period, c. 664 - 30 BC, seated with his knees drawn up before him, tufts of hair on each side of his head. He holds his enormous engorged phallus against his chest with both hands, resting his chin on the end. Suspension loop at the back of his head. H: 46 mm. Intact, glaze fade though traces of black still on the hair. Ex Negus collection, UK, late 19th Century.
Ex Angora Auctions #1 - Nov 2013

Here's a link to the photo in my gallery:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-104432

I guess my general immaturity and my ancient coin collecting have finally collided!  Regardless, I like it and it will make an interesting conversation piece.

Sosius
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline JBF

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 10:22:42 pm »
Well, in our culture, that definitely is X-rated.  Do you know how it would have been, um, received in ancient Egypt?

 ;D

Offline Christopher H2

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 519
  • Assistant Junior Numismatist at Themis Numismatics
    • Themis Numismatics on Biddr
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2013, 07:04:31 am »
Looks more like he is kissing the tip of his phallus than resting his head on it. What a strange object. Must have been some kind of fertility idol, one would think? Perhaps it was used as decoration in a brothel?

Edit: No it is so small. 46 mm in height, not really enough for a little statuette. And then there is the suspension loop. Really does seem like it was made to be worn around the neck. That is so weird!

Definitely an interesting piece.

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2013, 10:52:24 am »
Quote from: Christopher H2 on December 03, 2013, 07:04:31 am
Looks more like he is kissing the tip of his phallus than resting his head on it. What a strange object. Must have been some kind of fertility idol, one would think? P

Who knows.  I've had my kids, so I will not be wearing it around my neck any time soon! 

Sosius
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2013, 10:53:24 am »
Well, in our culture, that definitely is X-rated.  Do you know how it would have been, um, received in ancient Egypt?

 ;D

 :evil: Ha!  The pun possibilities are endless, aren't they?
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline JBF

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2013, 08:19:58 pm »
Maybe it is a talisman for certain kinds of musicians???
 ::)

But seriously, what is your interpretation of the function of this object in its original ancient Egyptian context??

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2013, 09:03:16 pm »
Maybe it is a talisman for certain kinds of musicians???
 ::)

But seriously, what is your interpretation of the function of this object in its original ancient Egyptian context??

I know nothing more than the description provided. I've thought long and hard about it, though.  :angel:
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline Russ

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 08:58:27 am »
Hi Folks,

     Years ago, I had a large one (no pun intended) made of pale blue glazed faience. These items represent the ancient Egyptian god Min, and date from the XXVIth Dynasty to Roman times.
     See:
     1.  Andrews, Carol. Amulets of Ancient Egypt. Avon/Austin, 1994: pages 11, 16, 17, 88; Figs 5a and 11b.
     2.  Blanchard, R.H. Handbook of Egyptian Gods and Mummy Amulets. Cairo, 1909 (reprinted by Attic Books, no date): page 19, Figs. 193 & 194, Plate      XXXVII. Blanchard notes " Min, Minu or Khem, the ithyphalic god of procreation and harvest. He was allied to Amen and wears the two feathers. He hoolds aloft the flail with his right arm. He was the son of Isis, father of Ra, and husband of his mother. Min was the original of the Greek god Pan, and was worshipped at Akhmim, or the Panopolis of the Greeks."
     3.  Petrie, W.M.F. Amulets, London, 1914, reprinted 1974: page 37, Section 161, Plate XXX.

Russ

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 09:15:22 am »
Thanks, Russ! I'll update the description to reflect this information!
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

snofru

  • Guest
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2013, 07:26:17 am »
Hello,
This is a male figure with bunched sidelocks playing the double flute.
The phallus is hanging between his legs to the ground. Unfortunately
this amulet is chipped, so you can not see his glans tipping the base.
I will look this evening in my books for a similar.
Sorry for my english ;-)

Snofru

Offline Christopher H2

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 519
  • Assistant Junior Numismatist at Themis Numismatics
    • Themis Numismatics on Biddr
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 08:06:22 am »
Hello,
This is a male figure with bunched sidelocks playing the double flute.
The phallus is hanging between his legs to the ground. Unfortunately
this amulet is chipped, so you can not see his glans tipping the base.
I will look this evening in my books for a similar.
Sorry for my english ;-)

Snofru
It's a flute!? I am relieved.

snofru

  • Guest
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2013, 10:40:22 am »
Hello,
yes, it is a double flute.
I looked in my books and found some similar.
Here are some examples of this kind of amulets:
1.Blanchard, R.H. Handbook of Egyptian Gods and Mummy Amulets. Cairo, 1909 Fig. 116 Plate XXV
2.Christian Herrmann, Aegyptische Amulette aus Palaestina/Israel. Fig. 274, Page 288; Plate 22

Snofru

Offline JBF

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2013, 11:56:42 am »
I also thought it was a flute!  A skin flute!

I was only joking when I said it was a musician.  But, it could be for all I know, I don't know about Egyptian stuff much.

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2013, 01:41:31 pm »
Hello,
yes, it is a double flute.
I looked in my books and found some similar.
Here are some examples of this kind of amulets:
1.Blanchard, R.H. Handbook of Egyptian Gods and Mummy Amulets. Cairo, 1909 Fig. 116 Plate XXV
2.Christian Herrmann, Aegyptische Amulette aus Palaestina/Israel. Fig. 274, Page 288; Plate 22

Snofru

Thank you Snofru.  The picture from the Herrmann book looks just like my amulet.  It does look the figure is holding two flutes, just a bit closer together than the example pictured in the Herrmann book.

So, the plot thickens on this little amulet.  It looks like it was misattributed.  Also, I requested documentation of the provenance from the auction house.  The auction house then contacted the consignor, who said that there was a mixup and the item was actually from a collection acquired in the 1980s and 1990s, not the late 1800s as originally stated.  It's looking like my delightful ithyphallic dwarf with pre-UNESCO pedigree is neither ithyphallic, nor pre-UNESCO.  Very frustrating.  I guess I will looking into a return, if that's possible. 

Sosius


Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 01:42:11 pm »
I also thought it was a flute!  A skin flute!

I was only joking when I said it was a musician.  But, it could be for all I know, I don't know about Egyptian stuff much.

Ha!  I almost spit out my coffee when I read this. 
Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

Offline mauseus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 3089
  • Ah Allectus, my trusted friend.......
    • Later Roman Coinage
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 02:16:09 pm »
Hi,

Could I ask, given the pedigree of "Negus collection" and the potential date, is it the late British antiques expert and television personality Arthur Negus who died in 1985?

Regards,

Mauseus

Offline Russ

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 02:07:39 am »
Hi Sosius and friends,

     After reading your comments, I checked further and there are several authorities who equate the ancient Egyptian god Min with the ancient Greek god Pan, who played the "Pan pipes". The ancient Greeks equated Min with Pan as they did Shu with Atlas, holding up the world.
     So, I checked Gardner and Griffith Naukratis II, London, 1888, page 57 reads in part "Sometimes we find a musician with harp (XIV,14); we may compare this with the primitive figures of flute players that have been found in abundance, made either of glazed ware (Pl. XVII. 4; cf. Nauk. I. Pl. II. 7) or of alabaster."
     Just a note about Naukratis... first, if you want to create a hornet's nest among archaeologists just mention chronology, especially the chronology of Naukratis. This being said, here goes... Egypt was a "closed" country and for years Mediterranean sailors were itching to trade with Egypt. Around the time of the XXVIth Dynasty, circa the reign of Psammeticus II  the Greeks, Phoenicians, etc. were allowed to settle on a small piece of land in Egypt, which they called Naukratis. (It was similar to the Chinese allowing westerners to settle on Kong Island and build warehouses which were called hongs, thus Hong Kong.) The Mediterranean sailors built temples, houses, ware houses and factories which produced scarabs, amulets, etc. These Mediterranean sailors carried their goods all over the Mediterranean world. The Phoenicians, sailing beyond the Pillars of Hercules, stopped off at the caves at the base of the rock of Gibraltar and left votive offerings of scarabs, etc. there. Egyptian culture became all the rage, the Phoenicians and Greeks began to surpass the Egyptians in the high quality hard stone scarabs they produced. Generally, mold made faience scarabs and amulets from Naukratis were of low quality and these were brought to ancient sanctuaries as votive offerings, for examples see Payne, H., Dunbabin, T.J., et al. Perachora II Vo. 2. The Sanctuaries of Hera Akraia and Limenia. Oxford, 1962.
     It's fascinating to see how ancient cultures were put into a blender and given a whirl - thousands of years ago.     
     I just checked Petrie, Gardner and Head. Naukratis I, 1884-85. London, 1886. Page 14 - back then, they thought these figures had something to do with Apollo. Sorry, I have not been allowed to "cut and paste". The text reads "The later class of votive figures, belonging to about the middle of the sixth century, were of the light friable sandy-ware, glazed, in imitation of Egyptian work. The subjects, however, are seldom Egyptian, a figure of Ptah being all that could be mistaken for native art. The motive generally has reference to Apollo (pl. ii.), such as figures playing on the double pipes, or playing on the lyre, and especially the hawk figures...".     See Plate II, Numbers 7 an 13.
     Russ

Offline Sosius

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: My first antiquity - a well-endowed dwarf with pedigree!
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2013, 08:55:27 am »
Cool info, Russ. Thanks for taking the time to compose such a thorough and erudite posting!  Now I know how to stir things up a bit if I'm at a cocktail with a bunch of archeologists!   ;)

Sosius

My Gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=24203
650+ coins and about 2/3 done--I have a coin problem

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity