To Use or Not to Use Ren Wax...

[areich]

I'd seriously like to know if they do in fact use Renwax. Not because I'd use it but because I'd then have to stop
telling everyone they don't.

[curtislclay]

I'd accept the testimony of the Museum's curator of Roman coins, who wrote me the Museum does not apply Ren Wax to its ancient coins, over that of a salesgirl in the Museum shop!

[areich]

I thought that was supposed to be a joke.

[mwilson603]

I'd accept the testimony of the Museum's curator of Roman coins, who wrote me the Museum does not apply Ren Wax to its ancient coins, over that of a salesgirl in the Museum shop!

That's all well and good Curtis, but that doesn't answer the original posters question of whether to use or not to use. 
With respect to everyone else on this board, you are pretty much one of the world's biggest experts on ancient coinage, so I for one would be very interested in your thoughts on the use of RenWax on ancient coins.
regards
Mark

[Lloyd Taylor]

Coins are but a small subset of artifacts.

Some useful references at the bottom of this article. The latter may or may not constitute marketing depending on your perspective and your predisposition, or otherwise, to what may or may not be urban myth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax

If its completely BS and as damaging as some indicate, then I am surprised someone hasn't sued the manufacturers ass for misrepresentation and false advertising at the least and damages to coins and artifacts at the worst. 

Would the BM allow its name to be used for commercial advantage (on a damaging product) over several decades if the representations are not substantially correct? Unlikely in my view.

[Lloyd Taylor]

Strange isn't it that numismatists who think nothing of soaking coins in all sorts of chemical brews, immersing coins in mild acids (lemon juice), artificially patinating coins with toxic chemical mixes, chiseling at them with dental picks and other implements then get all hot and bothered over an applied protective thin coat of easily soluble/removable petroleum based product/wax? 

To each his own when it comes to matters that cause angst and there is little that is logical or factual about it. It is a comment as to how emotions can run riot over the most innocuous of things when logic is replaced by a committed belief!

[renegade3220]

Ya mark I agree. I think it's gotten alittle off topic. It has still been informative but I would love to hear from Curtis and all with so many years of experience.

[areich]

Loyd, I don't think the ones who dislike (and I don't claim it's actually harmful) wax of any kind on coins are the same people who de- and repatinate coins. Cleaning silver with lemon juice or cleaning bronze mechanically (I wish I could) is a completely different thing.

[Lloyd Taylor]

Loyd, I don't think the ones who dislike (and I don't claim it's actually harmful) wax of any kind on coins are the same people who de- and repatinate coins. Cleaning silver with lemon juice or cleaning bronze mechanically (I wish I could) is a completely different thing.

Perhaps I overstated it.  My point is that a coating of wax is temporary and readily reversible, unlike some of the other things we do to coins.  Therefore, I don't think we should not get hung-up on what is as much as anything a matter of personal taste that is easily reversed by any new owner with a different taste. Beyond the matter of taste, I can see some benefit in treating bronze artifacts, including coins, with a thin coating of Renaissance wax to protect against adverse atmospheric exposure.  If you have lived by the sea, or in humid climes, the benefits of such a protective coating on bronze material are readily apparent.

[Danny S. Jones]

I second Mark's question, and would love to hear from Curtis on the matter. I live in a very humid climate and fight BD all the time, so I'm up for using all the tools at my disposal to rid my collection of bronzes from that curse. On the other hand, I've always been afraid that after I treat a coin, the BD might not be fully gone, so I've never waxed a coin I suspect might still suffer from it, or that has ever suffered from it for that matter. I will have to admit, though, that none of my coins that have it applied have ever had BD.

Danny

[DruMAX]

Strange isn't it that numismatists who think nothing of soaking coins in all sorts of chemical brews, immersing coins in mild acids (lemon juice), artificially patinating coins with toxic chemical mixes, chiseling at them with dental picks and other implements then get all hot and bothered over an applied protective thin coat of easily soluble/removable petroleum based product/wax? 

To each his own when it comes to matters that cause angst and there is little that is logical or factual about it. It is a comment as to how emotions can run riot over the most innocuous of things when logic is replaced by a committed belief!

Dont forget electrolysis...in fact I learned how to use electrolysis on coins from a PDF document I got from a museum.Just because a museum does something doesn't necessarily make it the best option. I tend to agree that if you don't need to put anything on a coin or clean it, that the best bet. I know most of the coins I have purchased have been cleaned and many have had that god awful darkener used on them. In many cases its just ones personal taste but why people think its a good idea to blacken a coin I do not know.

I will simply say than I have had to clean and derust my iron coins...some when I first got them and others developed rust after I got them. I keep them in flips and used to put a desiccant in with my coins but that would rather quickly turn to liquid and I found myself always changing it and getting more so I decided instead to simply put a very thin layer of wax on them. The only other coins I have waxed are a few LRB coins I had that developed BD, I cleaned it, neutralized it, then again, just a thin coating of wax. Wrong? I dont know but I can barely tell its on there. This was my personal choice and I cannot say its objectively right or wrong but I did it because it is VERY humid where I live and I just wanted to make sure my iron coin did not start rusting again. But again, as little cleaning or application of anything to a coin, IMO, is ideal.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I find a little beeswax helps to bring out the details. Renwax would probably have a similar effect.

[areich]

Rubbing a coin of the kind you're talking about between my fingers works well enough and I don't consider
myself a particularly greasy person. 

[commodus]

The less done to coins the better.

[mwilson603]

The less done to coins the better.

So just to understand your point better, what state are the coins in your collection? 
I mean the scope between totally encrusted and muddy, and cleaned down to the metal is quite a wide spectrum, and obviously "the less done" would mean encrusted and muddy in many cases. 
Do you have any coins that have been smoothed, slightly tooled, harshly brushed with a brass brush or similar?  Also, as you know, re-toning or re-patination using sulphur products etc can be widely found in many coins, is that a no-no in your mind? 
Even before you look at waxing/lacquering etc there is so much that could have been done to the coins that we have in our collections, exactly where do you draw the line for "the less done"?
regards
Mark

[Enodia]

i think commodus was refering to after the cleaning process (which in itself can include a number of undesirable techniques).
so yes, smoothing, tooling, re-patination, etc would be a no-no, at least to my mind... the less done to the coin after cleaning, the better.

~ Peter

[mwilson603]

Thanks Peter, if that is what Commodus meant then I understand his point of view at least, even if I don't wholly agree with it.  I did think his original statement was a little too general to be taken at face value.
regards
Mark

[areich]

Each person has their own limits and it depends on the coin. Of course we usually don't know what the coin looked like before cleaning. Smoothing has it place and can be a good thing if carefully done, all the other things should be avoided, in my personal opinion. If a coin has been depatinated (which may in rare cases be the best thing to do) it should not be painted but left to tone by itself. The only thing I could never accept is tooling, no matter how rare and interesting a coin may have been before it was tooled.

[Enodia]

Thanks Peter, if that is what Commodus meant then I understand his point of view at least, even if I don't wholly agree with it. 

and that is the best we can expect from a forum such as this. 
as i said above, i am against waxing in general, but in some cases it may be a necessary evil.

~ Peter

[slokind]

I have put a little of it on rescued coins that seem very 'thirsty' and feel very brittle.  But so little that it helped, not hindered, legibility, and only after drying thoroughly.  As for 'value', I think the coin in question is nearly unsalable and of no value except to me, because I like it.  When someone tries to make a coin shiny with RenWax they make photography and close study nearly impossible.
Pat L.
This coin came to me with extremely advanced BD.
CLICK

[commodus]

i think commodus was refering to after the cleaning process (which in itself can include a number of undesirable techniques).
so yes, smoothing, tooling, re-patination, etc would be a no-no, at least to my mind... the less done to the coin after cleaning, the better.

~ Peter

Yes. I guess I was too succinct. Thanks, Peter, for clarifying my comment. I thought it would be obvious that this means after the cleaning process but I guess it is always better to spell things out.
For me, smoothing, tooling, and re-patination can put a coin perilously close to the fake category, especially tooling. I won't buy a coin that has been so treated. The coin may be original at its core, but modern alterations such as repatination, etc., are nothing more than tampering. Smoothing can have its place in certain cases but generally when it is done it is overdone. I generally don't want a coin that has been stripped, either, but I prefer that to repatinated (I am in full agreement with Andreas above on letting stripped coins retone naturally). Ren wax is another matter altogether as it is reversible and therefore generally okay. As Pat points out above, it can be useful as a restorative agent as well. It is my opinion, generally, that after a coin has been cleaned it should be left alone unless there is a pressing reason (e.g. bronze disease, extreme brittleness, etc.) to do otherwise. In those cases the problem should be treated directly in the most non-invasive manner possible.

Eric

[mwilson603]

Yes. I guess I was too succinct. Thanks, Peter, for clarifying my comment. I thought it would be obvious that this means after the cleaning process but I guess it is always better to spell things out.

To be honest Eric, I was being deliberately facetious to elicit clarification, and extrapolation, of the point.   

regards

Mark

[commodus]

Understood.
However, I still should have stated that I meant post-cleaning. 

[Danny S. Jones]

I've come across several coins over the years that have been desecrated with a coat of greet paint, which seems that at one time to have been an acceptable "conservation" method. Has anyone else seen this, or know of who would have done such a thing and why? I seem to remember reading about it somewhere a long time ago, but I can't remember where.

They say that memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember the first.

Danny

[Lloyd Taylor]

I've come across several coins over the years that have been desecrated with a coat of greet paint, which seems that at one time to have been an acceptable "conservation" method. Has anyone else seen this, or know of who would have done such a thing and why? I seem to remember reading about it somewhere a long time ago, but I can't remember where.

I've seen plenty of recently cleaned ancient bronzes covered with what I would consider to be green paint and its termed artificial patina by some!  Some of these artificial patinas are appalling and in no way resemble the real thing.  You can even see the brush strokes on some.  I don't think its a conservation approach, past or recent.