Suspicious (?) Patinae

[Federico M]

I'd like to have your hopinions about the patina of these coins.
Hopinions about the authenticity in general are wellcome (I think they are genuine), but my doubts concerns only the fact that the same seller is selling coins from quite different periods, but all with similar patinae (my suspect is simply that he cleaned the coins with lye and then put something on them to recreate a more or less nice and natural appearance).

Thanks and best regards,
Federico

[Federico M]

same seller

[Federico M]

same seller again

[stickman]

It looks to me as they have been stripped down and then something like Deller's Darkener was applied.

[AncientCoins]

the VN MR would be ABSOLUTELY beautiful if it were cleaned and with an original patina...

andrew

[Federico M]

the VN MR would be ABSOLUTELY beautiful if it were cleaned and with an original patina...

I agree: I also decided to buy this one (and only this one), despite the fake patina (for 7.50$ is still reasonable, imho).
Unfortunately the same seller or his source of coins also damaged some provincials to mechanically clean them... I hate people killing coins

Thanks for your comments,
Federico

[Robert_Brenchley]

So do I, when it can be avoided; I accept that there are times when it's necessary. At the same time, I buy coins like these regularly; I'd rather have the patina but I don't regard its absence as fatal.

[Postumus]

Io penso siano originali, la patina è dovuta al modo in cui sono state pulite, penso abbastanza barbarico. 

[pippo72]

Il problema è che certi signori prima "scorticano" la moneta poi la scuriscono artificialmente...sono daccordo con federico quando parla di monete che vengono "uccise". Sembra una manìa quella di voler tirar fuori per forza più dettaglio possibile. Quando l'esemplare diventa leggibile si lasci in pace!

[PeterD]

I'd rather have the patina but I don't regard its absence as fatal.

I agree. After all, what is 'original' patina? When coins left the mint they were probably shiny copper or silver washed. Any patina aquired since presumably happened while in the ground. I don't suppose that many coins pop out of the ground with a perfect chocolate brown patina.

[slokind]

Well, whether from Syrian sands or Tiber anaerobics or Moeisan mineral-rich muck, an original patina is what was on the coin and had become part of it, chemically, before someone found it recently and cleaned it.
Modern patination, on the other hand, MAY have been added (whatever the chemistry involved) to conceal what the cleaner found or what the cleaner caused.
Does that make sense?
Pat L.

[Postumus]

Il problema è che certi signori prima "scorticano" la moneta poi la scuriscono artificialmente...sono daccordo con federico quando parla di monete che vengono "uccise". Sembra una manìa quella di voler tirar fuori per forza più dettaglio possibile. Quando l'esemplare diventa leggibile si lasci in pace!

Calcola che alcuni collezionisti ( per fortuna non molti) vogliono collezionare le monete nelle stesse condizioni in cui circolavano quindi coi metodi più svariati (addirittura la coca cola) le puliscono fino a renderle luccicanti ARGHHHHHHHHHH.
Il tempo poi riforma la patina scura sul rame.

[Paul Oatman]

I like to think of patina as the soul of the coin, its unique personality, the flesh on the bones... an acomplishment that the coin has earned through centuries of patient, diligent ... good living  ...  Its an easy thing for a coin to be stripped of its... patinated dignity or to have a very bad beaten appearance, but to survive so long and grow a vibrant almost living patina... that is a rare thing indeed.  Often as hard to find as any EID MAR

That said, if a coins patina/personality/soul/flesh has been destroyed, one can only cleanse it of the chared remnants as best as possible so that over the next 1700 years it can grow a new legacy.

I frown heavily on destoyers of patina... but I cannot condemn those that restore patinas.  Something has to be done to keep away bronze disease so that the coin can live long enough to regain its dignity.

  Gold and silver are lazy.  Bronze has much to overcome in order to keep its immortal beauty. 

? Can you tell that patina is my favorite thing in all the world!? 

Paul

[Federico M]

I like to think of patina as the soul of the coin, its unique personality, the flesh on the bones...

I agree with you at 100%. But I absolutely have to quote also the alternative point of view of Joviel (Joviel's Den website):

The patina on an ancient coin is like virginity. Remove it and you can't get it back. And it is just about as highly prized by many collectors. And to continue a bad analogy, I don't completely understand the value of either...

By the way, I do not agree with Joviel (about the patina...), but his explanation was worth mentioning

Regards,
Federico