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Author Topic: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same  (Read 1164 times)

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Offline Ken W2

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Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« on: June 11, 2013, 01:01:26 am »
How much, if any, of the legends must be readable or present to have a legit attribution?  For example, say a coin has a good depiction of the bust, the device on the rev, and a good mm, but few if any readable letters in the legend, and by reference to Sear the coin is identifiable. Is that a legit attribution?  How do you write an attribution when you can only read or see some of the letters?  Do write what you can actually see and read, or do you write the whole legends because you know that is what is there but is unreadable or is what would be there if the strike was centered? I am just starting out and think I will use an abbreviated attribution, but I want it to be correct/acceptable within the hobby. Thanks.
Ken

Offline Victor C

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Re: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 10:03:19 am »
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Victor Clark

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Offline Molinari

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Re: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 11:01:45 am »
For Greek coinage with partial inscriptions, I use Icard:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=icard


Offline SC

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Re: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 05:15:54 am »
Ken,

Depends on what you are talking about.

How you write it up for your collection is ultimately your business.   If you have an attribution to a standard reference (i.e. RIC-VII-Rome-281) then it does't matter if you write out the legend or not. The full entry in the reference details the coin and people can always look it up.

With Greeks or Roman Provincial/Greek Imperial where there are many legend variations it is best to write out whatever you can see with the missing/illegible bits somehow indicated. 

If you are talking about the process of actually identifying the coin then it depends on the type.  If you look at late Roman bronzes there are some designs that are only found with one legend.  So you can easily infer the legend.  However, there are others which are found with more than one legend.  Usually the Emperor and module or fabric will allow you to narrow it down.  There are some cases though where this will not be possible.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 06:03:06 am »
How much, if any, of the legends must be readable or present to have a legit attribution?  For example, say a coin has a good depiction of the bust, the device on the rev, and a good mm, but few if any readable letters in the legend, and by reference to Sear the coin is identifiable. Is that a legit attribution?  

This is an interesting question. Of course there are no rules, but don't suppose that this is only a worn LRB dilemma. The same issue happens on all coins where control marks or key legend varieties get offstruck, flat-struck or worn. Actual practice varies. Take the coin below:

http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=573694

Nice enough to sell for CHF 3750 on an estimate of CHF 600, but the legend is off flan. Completely. On both sides. Because there's no snakes in Medusa's hair, that leaves open that it might be RRC 453/1c (L. PLAVTIVS PLANCVS) or RRC 453/1d (L.PLAVTIVS PLANCV) or RRC 453/1e (L.PLAVTIV PLANCVS).

  • I'd have catalogued it as 453/1.
  • NAC catalogued it as 453/1c (the first and most common possibility, but perhaps they checked the die against Banti so know it as such)
  • Some might catalogue as 453/1c or 1d or 1d
  • Some might catalogue it as just 453 (since defining a variety makes no sense when you can't read the legend).

I don't think it matters, but giving just a high level Sear number (my equivalent to just using 453) is perfectly fine, and if you know for sure that some letters don't match you could use "Sear 123 var." If it is significantly different from Sear 123, e.g. has a completely different legend form or a variation in the devices you could write "cf Sear 123". cf., an abbreviation for the Latin word confer, means "compare" or "consult". That means whoever looks at the coin should realise it is somewhat like, but different from, Sear 123.

Or you could also write "As of Hadrian with Pax" and not quote a catalogue number at all. There's no obligation whatsoever to use catalogue numbers in a coin description. Words will do just fine. Anyone interested can spend 2 minutes looking through a book to find as close as match as you. And often no-one wants more than "As of Hadrian with Pax" because that's what they need to know.

Why collect by catalogue numbers anyway. Not the owner of the Medusa silver denarius. He didn't care that it was an unidentifiable coin when he bid 6 times estimate, and presumably neither did his underbidder! It's best to see a catalogue as a route to other types of knowledge: it may indicate a date within an emperors series, it may say something about his titles, the odd varieties in spelling and devices may indicate something on the engravers mind or a practice or custom that is less usual on the coin series and thus worth noting (e.g. knocking off the final S on the Plautia coin - not so common on coins but perhaps this was the vernacular). When I recently catalogued the anonymous bronzes of the Roman Republic, it was in order to place each coin in its correct historic context in the battle against Hannibal, in order to say "that looks like a military camp issue from Apulia of about 210BC". It wasn't just because the coins badly needed numbering!

Catalogue numbers are ways to get into the minds of the ancients by discovering obscure or interesting information about the era, about people, about a coin type. Use them when they do you good service.

Offline Ken W2

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Re: Attribution without full legends and Writing the same
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 10:58:43 am »

Thanks fellows.  It seems that how you write an attribution is somewhat subjective, although there are some settled norms about the info to be included.  More important, for me as one just starting in the area collecting uncleaned Roman coins, is that it is legit to attribute at least in part by inference or deduction.  For example, if I have a coin clearly depicting the bust of Constans, with the S PF AVG showing on the right side of the obv, with a recognizable device on the reverse, that coin can legitmately be attributed as a Constans even though the CONSTAN is missing from the obv or obscured by heavy patina.  That helps me in two significant ways: 1) I know that the many, many partial/obscured legend coins I get in unclean lots, while perhaps not high quality, are accepted as attributable and thus are not junk to be thrown away and 2) it makes it easier to resist the temptation to strip the patina in the hope of revealing just a little more detail to make an attribution. Thanks again.

Ken       

 

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