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Author Topic: Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?  (Read 338 times)

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Offline Din X

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Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?
« on: June 30, 2023, 08:07:07 am »
I did some research about an old forgery in my collection, a Vitellius Hydrid (with Nero reverse).
After a while I found a Nero forgery with the same reverse die in BM listed as old forgery.
Then I have found a Vitellius Denarius RIC 112 from the same obverse die which is listed in BM as authentic and which was considered by experts so far as authentic and of course published in literature as authentic RIC (Ric 112) or in Gnecchi page 10 number 3 und plate 142 number 9, there is one in Bronze from same dies
The Nero reverse with DECVR and the Vitellius reverse with Victoria seem to be copied from Bronze coins and do most likely not exist as Denarii.
But strangely in ocre are 2 listed, the old forgery in BM as authentic and one from "Portable Antiquities Scheme" without pictures, so are there really authentic coins of this type as Denarii or is this form Portable Antiquities Scheme just a misattributed Vitellius with of the common Victoria reverses?
The BM forgery was aquired in 1799.
I have found on of these from the same dies mentioned in a book of 1767 (online available more information below).
Has anyone found any of these forgeries mentioned in old literature in best case before 1767?
Any help would be very much appreciated.
I have notified BM, that their coin is die linked to two old forgeries!


Edit : Noticed that there is a legend error A VITELLIVS GER IMP AVG P M T P P instead of A VITELLIVS GER IMP AVG P M TR P

The Vitellius BM Ric 112

 

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-10256

 

https://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.1%282%29.vit.112

 
http://davy.potdevin.free.fr/Site/vitellius.html


http://www.coinproject.com/coin_detail.php?coin=296308
 

My coin Hybrid with same obverse die, was sold twice through auction houses wrongly attributed to Luigi Cigoi!

 

Leu Numismatik Auction 4 Lot 925           25.05.2019

 

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5992836

 

 

CNG  Electronic Auction 419 Lot 649        25.04.2018

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4924261

 

https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=359373

 

 

Die linked Nero in BM listed as old forgery

 

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1975-0904-1

 

 

Ad Numismata Imperatorum Romanorum Aurea Et Argentea A Vaillantio Edita, A Cl. Baldinio Aucta Ex Solius Austriæ Utriusque, Iisque Aliquibus Museis Subplementum A Julio Caes. Ad Comnenos Se Porrigens, Josef Khell von Khellburg, 1767 (page 31+32), book is online available for free lecture

 

https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/id/PPN653888783

 

https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN653888783/PPN653888783.pdf


Gnecchi shows one of these fakes (page 10 number 3 und plate 142 number 9)

I medaglioni romani. Vol. III: Bronzo. Pt. 2: Moduli minori ; Pt. 3: Medaglioni del senato / descr. ed illustr. da Francesco Gnecchi

https://de.scribd.com/document/229754597/I-medaglioni-romani-Vol-III-Bronzo-Pt-2-Moduli-minori-Pt-3-Medaglioni-del-senato-descr-ed-illustr-da-Francesco-Gnecchi#


I am trying to do some research about my forgeries about who was the artist and what was the production time and location.





Offline Din X

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Re: Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2023, 01:30:46 pm »
Another new die combination, this one seems to be a cast fake, I would be happy to see an original struck forgery of this reverse die.

https://catalog.princeton.edu/catalog/coin-16642


Offline Din X

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Re: Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2024, 03:49:35 am »
The one illustrated in the book

"Ad Numismata Imperatorum Romanorum Aurea Et Argentea A Vaillantio Edita, A Cl. Baldinio Aucta Ex Solius Austriæ Utriusque, Iisque Aliquibus Museis Subplementum A Julio Caes. Ad Comnenos Se Porrigens, Josef Khell von Khellburg, 1767 (page 31+32)"

is now in the Hunter Coin Cabinet


Roman Imperial Coins in The Hunter Coin Cabinet, Vol. 1 - Augustus To Nerva, Anne S. Robertson, Glasgow 1962


Robertson considered this one to be possibly an ancient forgery and on their homepage it is listed "denarius (forged ?)"


https://www.gla.ac.uk/collections/#/details?irn=83653&catType=C&referrer=/results&q=vitellius

Offline Din X

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Re: Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2024, 03:55:15 am »
The Nero is considered by Cohen as fake too.

And by IAPN, not sure why link is not working anymore, IAPN ID 1244 4,93 g

https://iapn-coins.org/product/nero-54-68-sestertius-6/

Offline Din X

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Re: Do authentic coins of the type Vitellius RIC 112 exist?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2024, 04:05:41 am »
Nero and/or Vitellius as authentic in

Brüder Egger Wien Römische Münzen Sammlung eines bekannten Wiener Amateurs ; die öffentliche Versteigerung findet statt 14. April 1913 und folgende Tage (Katalog Nr. 43)  Wien, 1913, lot 443

The Numismatic Chronicle and Journal of the Numismatic Society Akerman John Yonge, Vol VIII, only description


The twelve Caesars (Julius to Domitian), Morris Robert, La Grange (Kentucky), there drawings

 

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