Vitellius subaeratus/rewers Otho?

[Maciej D]

Awers:Vitelius?
Rewers:SECVRITAS P R  ? Otho RIC 8-12 ?

[gordian_guy]

Definitely looks to be a plated coin - the silver plating appears to be coming off of bronze core.

c.rhodes

[Maciej D]

Yes , I wrote in title that it is subaeratus. I have a question. Is that hybrid of coin of Vitellius with rewers of Othon?

[gordian_guy]

Understood your question. Have you considered other emperors or can you make out Vitellius on the obverse. I did not find the reverse - which looks like maybe Victory of some type - for Otho that looked like yours. Was wondering if Obverse is Vespasian or Titus??

c.rhodes

[Maciej D]

Obverse looks like Vitelius. For Probably this is not  Titus . Maybe Vespasian . This coin is in poor condition thats why I put a few more pictures. I mentioned to them my suspicions.A VITELLIVS GERM IMP AVG TR P ?  /  SECVRITAS P R  ? (Otho)

[David Atherton]

I believe you are correct. It is an obverse of Vitellius matched with a Securitas reverse from Otho. Vespasian did not strike this standing Securitas type in any case.

[Maciej D]

Thank you for opinion .Has anyone seen a similar hybrid? Unfortunately it condition is so weak.

[jmuona]

Yrs, indeed, you are correct about the coin. I am at work now, and do not have RIC/BMC here, but I think one of them, perhaps the former mentions a similar plated hybrid. A contemporary forgery for sure, but very rare - I have looked for these but never seen one before.
s.
Jyrki Muona

[Maciej D]

I looked for and found it . There is only one coin in  British Museum  BMC 45 .

[jmuona]

I have obtained pictures of all the Galba-Otho-Vitellius coins in BMC years ago. Your coin is quite corroded but I am convinced it is minted with the same dies as the BM hybrid "45", which is plated as well - I can see the breaks of the surface.
Nice find - if you ever think of departing from it, let me know...
s.
Jyrki Muona

[Maciej D]

Could you give me photos BMC 45?

[jmuona]

Hi,
I am sorry, but they are copyright BM and when buying the photos I have promised not to distribute or publish them without permission. I think you can get a photo from them by sending images of your piece for them to compare. You can mention I consider them to be minted with the same die-pair. I would expect them to like to know a second one has been found.
s.
Jyrki Muona

[Andrew McCabe]

Hi,
I am sorry, but they are copyright BM and when buying the photos ...

Jyrki,

This is, to me, surprising. The BM's photos are usually available free of charge on their website, under the following conditions:
- never to be posted on the internet (and permission will not be granted, bar exceptions: e.g. they actually requested me to post their gold EID MAR)
- free to use in print, no permission is required so long as the print-run is under 4000, BM copyright is acknowledged, and the publication is primarily non-commercial
- free to be shared privately e.g. through personal email, so long as the same conditions follow the shared photos. Hence one could share with a fellow specialist

I've not heard of anyone buying photos from the BM in recent times, nor of different conditions applying than the above, which are posted on the BM site. If you requested them to make a new photo, I guess different conditions might apply. Still surprising.

Andrew

[gordian_guy]

You can go visit this beauty online!!

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1213186&partId=1&searchText=Vitellius+hybrid&page=1

c.rhodes

This link is long, so cut and paste works

[jmuona]

I have no clue about "recent times" as to the images. I bought them as photographs in 1998, about - no other sources existed at the time and you were not allowed to take them yourself - I did examine the coins, however. All I know is what I signed then and thus do not want to distribute the images.
It appears the policy has changed. I am glad. I do suspect, though, that photographs have to be bought even today.
s.
Jyrki Muona

[Andrew McCabe]

I have no clue about "recent times" as to the images. I bought them as photographs in 1998, about - no other sources existed at the time and you were not allowed to take them yourself - I did examine the coins, however. All I know is what I signed then and thus do not want to distribute the images.
It appears the policy has changed. I am glad. I do suspect, though, that photographs have to be bought even today.
s.
Jyrki Muona

The policy has certainly changed, in fact the BM advertised widely when they changed the policy, about 3 years ago. It applies to all images which are already accessible from the BM site. Nothing has to be bought anymore, unless perhaps it's not on the BM site (in which case I don't know)

They are however strict on the conditions, which for all list members is worth knowing:
- pics are never to be reposted on the internet
- of course you can link to the BM site pics which is what c.rhodes did
- free to use in print, no permission is required (you don't even inform them) so long as the print-run is under 4000, BM Trustees copyright is acknowledged, and the publication is primarily non-commercial
- can be shared privately e.g. through personal email, so long as the same conditions follow the shared photos. Hence one could share with a fellow specialist through email.

[Maciej D]

Thanks for the link to British Museum.  I found there the first specimen. Indeed it is minted with the same dies as  my coin.

[Adrianus]

Very interesting since this coin appears also to share an obverse die with two others, one with a reverse appropriate to Galba and the other with one appropriate to Vespasian. Both these coins were found in Norfolk, suggesting that the workshop producing these Vitellian mules may have been based there.

Regards,

Adrianus

[Maciej D]

Maybe it is good trail. I bought it from UK. Probably it is the same workshop.