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Author Topic: Fantastic Caesar Portrait  (Read 5815 times)

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4to2CentBCphilia

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Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« on: April 04, 2013, 04:13:18 pm »
From an upcoming auction. With every detail the engraver intended.

BR

Mark


Offline HELEN S

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 04:46:17 pm »
 

 thats a great bust and what a coin hope you get it if you are going to bid GOOD LUCK +++ +++

Offline Panathas

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 05:14:49 pm »
Fantastic is too little to describe this piece! Who ever gets the coin he will definitely enjoy it. The face has very good detail!

Offline carthago

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 05:50:21 pm »
Holy cow, that's coin is perfect.  I bought too soon!!!  This just came in the mail today.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 06:36:30 pm »
Wow! Both coins are fantastic.

Offline Holding_History

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 04:53:39 pm »
Both are better than mine :-). Probably near the top of my list is a nicer Caesar.
All the best,
Nathan

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 11:49:06 am »
Beautiful both, But very $$$$$$$
CCAESAR

Offline Marcelo Leal

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 11:28:36 am »
Spectacular coins!! Unfortunately out of my budget!!

Best regards,
Marcelo Leal.
Augustus1975
Non omne quod fulget aurum est

Offline HELEN S

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 11:41:15 am »
Spectacular coins!! Unfortunately out of my budget!!

Best regards,
Marcelo Leal.

 mine too hehe   ::) ::)

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 11:46:24 am »
Quote from: carthago on April 04, 2013, 05:50:21 pm
Holy cow, that's coin is perfect.  I bought too soon!!!  This just came in the mail today.

Carthago,

I will take your cast off Caesar anytime :)

Regards,
mz

Offline carthago

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 11:59:42 am »

I will take your cast off Caesar anytime :)


Thank you Mark.  Now that I've got it in hand, it's lovely.  Large flan, beautiful tone. It's my favorite Caesar in my collection!

The one that Mark (4to2CentBC) originally posted in darn near perfect, but there is something to say about toning which it doesn't appear to have...yet.   8)

Offline lordmarcovan

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 01:29:55 am »
Fantastic, indeed!  Wow!!!

This is the only JC I have ever been able to afford.  Barely squeaked in under my $500 ceiling.

Looks pretty dumpy next to yours, but hey, I got a lifetime issue with a clear enough portrait and name on it, right?

Offline carthago

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 11:13:53 pm »
I got a lifetime issue with a clear enough portrait and name on it, right?

Absolutely, Lord!  Think about what your coin has seen with all that honest wear.  It probably circulated for several generation.  I always wonder what it bought, who was bribed, who was robbed for it, who was maybe even killed...all with and for your coin. 

Congrats on you lifetime Caesar and thank you for the kind compliment. 

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 06:48:29 pm »
Hey Lord M, A Caesar portrait, is a Caesar portrait.   I still have not found one.!!  Nice catch.
CCAESAR

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 06:55:23 pm »

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 07:22:12 pm »
Jay, I would love yours especially with the rarer reverse.  I like the flan too.    One day I want one, but I dont want to pay 5k!! As you say- "Venus seated' only appears on this one type of Caesar's 'lifetime' issues, on the remainder she is standing.'
CCAESAR

Offline crawforde

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 07:31:06 pm »
Nice coins all.   +++ +++
I have managed a couple nice Ceasar lifetime issues, but as yet the only portrait I have is a fake  >:(
At least it has Antony on it as well and luckily I knew it was fake so postage cost as much as the coin. :)
One day....
At least I enjoy looking at your coins!
The pristine beauties are wonderful to look at and can't be beat, but there is something special about the feeling you get when fondling a well circulated ancient coin.

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 07:35:53 pm »
So True CRAW!!
CCAESAR

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 07:49:14 pm »
Jay, I would love yours especially with the rarer reverse.  I like the flan too.    One day I want one, but I dont want to pay 5k!! As you say- "Venus seated' only appears on this one type of Caesar's 'lifetime' issues, on the remainder she is standing.'

Thanks Joe but it was nowhere near $5K  :o

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 07:51:52 pm »
The prices of Caesar portrait seem to be all over the board.  ??   
CCAESAR

Offline carthago

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2013, 11:32:35 am »
The prices of Caesar portrait seem to be all over the board.  ??   

They do seem to be erratic at times.  The coin that started this discussion just recently sold for nearly 2.5 times what I paid for mine just a few weeks ago.  It is a nicer coin in terms of strike, but 2.5 times nicer?  I know it's all relative to budget, but I think I got mine for less than anticipated.  It's a gorgeous coin in hand. 

I think you can get a decent example for far less than you mentioned.

And Jay, love that coin of yours.  The seated Buca is a tougher coin.

Chris

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2013, 12:04:57 pm »
The prices of Caesar portrait seem to be all over the board.  ??  

Oddly, because they are very common coins (really, they are, just begin to count them, you won't finish because there are hundreds online at any one moment), Caesar portrait coins are some of the most consistently priced coins that exist. Of course the prices move with the market, but the ratio between condition and prices for a Caesar portrait is more or less what I'd expect for any other common Republican coin, except the actual prices are times-ten. For example, if (hypothetically) a nice EF costs $5k, a nice VF would costs $2k, a nice F costs $700 and a G-VG costs $300 in that market. That's pretty consistent. There are few rare varieties, and coins that are off these price levels are generally so because they are well centred or badly corroded or whatever, or because your grading experience is such that you mistake a VF for an EF or vica-versa.

In the last five years I hardly recall seeing any Caesar portraits under-priced relative to these norms (a few get over-priced but then they never sell). It's as close to a gold-standard in coin pricing as you can get. Superb coins, GEF or FDC, of course can go off the scale, but that's beyond the normal market. The reason I know this is because I'm always in the market to buy a GVF Caesar portrait for the price of an NVF: slip ups in grading and pricing do occur, but not often. I buy about one per year.

Quote from: carthago on April 27, 2013, 11:32:35 am
The coin that started this discussion just recently sold for nearly 2.5 times what I paid for mine just a few weeks ago.  It is a nicer coin in terms of strike, but 2.5 times nicer?  

"nicer" is subjective. If it's the difference between near-VF and good-VF then 2.5 times might indeed be the correct ratio, or at least not far off. A small difference in condition often makes a big difference in price. This is my most recent Caesar portrait acquisition: It's almost as nice as one currently on sale for twice the price (which doesn't have the flat areas), but that's my point. It isn't as nice so it's worth half. That's normal pricing, not erratic.


Offline carthago

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2013, 12:51:57 pm »
I disagree with you on this one Andrew.  In general your argument is obviously true for most "common" ancients.

Non portrait coins of Caesar with the similar extant population (yes, the portrait issues as a whole are relatively common but "nice" ones aren't) seem to show more consistent pricing than portrait issues in my casual observation.  I don't have proof; it's just my personal observation.   I think the portrait coins are obtained on a more emotional rather than clinical basis due to the nature of it being a portrait of Julius Caesar and not Jimmy Carter.  Therefore, the pricing may not as regularly adhere to the typical rarity, condition, strike, etc formula you argue.

Nice Vitulus btw.  I think mine's "nicer" ;) but yours has the littus which I still need!

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2013, 01:06:03 pm »
Quote from: carthago on April 27, 2013, 12:51:57 pm
I disagree with you on this one Andrew.  In general your argument is obviously true for most "common" ancients.

Non portrait coins of Caesar with the similar extant population (yes, the portrait issues as a whole are relatively common but "nice" ones aren't) seem to show more consistent pricing than portrait issues in my casual observation.  I don't have proof; it's just my personal observation.   I think the portrait coins are obtained on a more emotional rather than clinical basis due to the nature of it being a portrait of Julius Caesar and not Jimmy Carter.  Therefore, the pricing may not as regularly adhere to the typical rarity, condition, strike, etc formula you argue.

Where we may find some common ground is in recognising that RRC 480 was a very badly struck issue. So well centred specimens are rare, and coins with flaws are common. Hence there are wild fluctuations because of relative flaws, and the flaws are difficult to put a price on. Of course once one moves into EF or perfectly struck VF, buyers and coins become rare and then prices can really vary. I still maintain that averagely-flawed VF Caesar portraits are more consistently priced than for most common coins (which also fluctuate), and that the reason for this is because the issues were very large yet are highly priced (because of JC's fame) so there is an instant arbitrage if a coin is underpriced: it gets sold in 10 minutes, whereas if a coin is 100% overpriced it never sells because there are other similar examples easily available ... but., perhaps with different flaws. Different perceptions on the value of striking flaws may be the reason for our different perceptions on pricing.

Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2013, 03:37:47 pm »
It reminds me of the L. Ahnebarbous denarius I finally attained, not too rare, but consistent high prices.   
CCAESAR

Offline benito

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Re: Fantastic Caesar Portrait
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2013, 04:49:02 pm »

 

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