Carthage ¼ shekel???

[Marsha]

 Received this coin as part of small lot, but the strangeness of this coin has me concerned.   Appears to be a ¼ Shekel from Carthage.  Can only find one similar coin on ACSearch with a horse & palm.   

Edges are strange as parts of it seem to be engrailed.  And part of it gives the impression that it has a silver plating on it   The surface of the coin seems to be partially crystalized.

Nothing like it in the fake coins reports

Thanks

Marsha

[Marsha]

16 mm and 3.1 grams

[djmacdo]

To me, that looks like a bad cast.

[Din X]

It is as already mentioned a bad cast fake.
There seems to be very strong crystallisation indicating a very fast cool down of the metal.
I am so free to add microscope pictures of cast fakes with crystallized surface from my collection for surface comparision, but my cast fakes do have not such a strong crystallisaton but I have seen already several cast fakes with such a strong crystallisation.

These 4 pictures are from a cast Demetrios Poliorketes tetradrachm, the mother was a Bulgarian fake from modern dies.
Sadly the fake was in a paper "bag" and not in the plastic ones, I sadly noticed that you can see sometimes inside the paper traces of silver because it seems to be rubbing the surface.
So the surface has been rubbed a little bit due to bad packaging.

[Din X]

Seller´s picture

[Din X]

Bactrian Drachm, cast fake

[Din X]

Leginoary cast fake

[Joe Sermarini]

Very interesting.  I think we need to add these as cast fake study images.

[Altamura]

Sometimes you also have such cristallized structures on authentic coins (I hope at least  ): [REMOVED BY ADMIN]
How do you distinguish that from the structures on a cast fake?

Regards

Altamura

[Din X]

Sometimes you also have such cristallized structures on authentic coins (I hope at least  ): [REMOVED BY ADMIN]
How do you distinguish that from the structures on a cast fake?

Regards

Altamura

I think it could be possible but difficult and it is not clear how reliable the results will be.

On cast fakes this crystals occure from too fast cooling down of the molten silver alloy.
A fast process.

And I guess (speculate) that the crystallisation on ancient coins is from aging of the silver alloy in combination with environmental influences.
Slow process.

The process of crystallisation on cast fakes is different from crystallisation process on authentic coins, so it is possible that the result will be different and can be distinguished.

I think that this is an interesting topic for smarter numismatists and/or chemists to answer such questions after research and/or experiments.

Is there a maximum crystal and structure/pattern size if the silver alloy is crystallized from againg and environment?
What is influencing the crystal and structure/pattern and size on ancient if they crystallize? (silver alloy, environmental influence like temperature, pressure, chemicals, elements and chemical reactions, time)? 
I think the faster the silver alloy cools down the huger the size of crystals and structures/pattern on cast fakes.

If I see this crystallisation in combination with typical casting problem it is clear that the coin must be a cast fake.
If a coin without any casting problems which looks authentic has crystallisation, then the coin is authentic.



 

[Joe Sermarini]

Almost everything that is an indicator of modern fakes can be found on genuine ancient coins. Die wear can make a coin look soapy. Pitting can look like casting bubbles. Some genuine coins have clear indications of casting (but it is pre-strike). A broken die can result in something that looks like a ghost edge. There is usually at least a subtle difference between these features on ancient coins and those on modern fakes. Also, most of these features are found more often on some types than others, so if you see them on a type on which they are unusual, the coin is more likely a fake. It takes a lot of practice to learn the differences and what to expect from each type.

I think the "crystallization" on genuine ancient coins looks a little different from this casting crystallization. I don't know how to put it in words. On genuine coins crystallization (etching) is found entirely (or almost entirely) on coins with very high silver content. It is also much more common on archaic silver (which is often higher silver content). You are not likely to find etching on Roman coins.