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Author Topic: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?  (Read 684 times)

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Offline Daniel L5

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14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« on: November 18, 2012, 12:06:57 am »
I recently bought a 14mm, 2.960g bronze Seleucid coin at a coin show that was labelled as Antiochus IV (photo attached to this post). I was skeptical, as it didn't look like any Antiochus IV that I had seen before, but the price was right, so I bought it anyway. After looking through a couple books and doing some extensive searches online, I just can't find any Antiochus IV that matches this coin, so it is definitely another Antiochus.

The obverse shows Antiochus (as Apollo?) facing right. He is either diademed or laureate, I can't quite tell (but I think it's laureate), and definitely not radiate. The reverse shows Apollo facing left, seated on an omphalos, leaning on his bow with his left hand and holding out an arrow with his right. There is a ribbon (or something similar) off the back of his head. There *may* be something above his thighs and below his arm, but I can't quite tell. The reverse reads: BASILEWS ANTIOXOY in Greek. There appear to be two monograms on the far left side, the lower one is a triangle (delta  :Greek_Delta:), and the upper one appears to be a Y with lines through it (I saw a similar monogram in Forum's catalog listed as a "KZ monogram," which I am unfamiliar with).

I have found a few similar coins online, but I'm still unsure as to which Antiochus this is. Here is what I found:

There is an Antiochus I at this link: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/seleucia/antiochos_I/t.html that appears very similar. About halfway down the page, coin # SC 351 appears to have most of the same features. This is the identification I'm leaning towards, but I'm just not sure.
Here is a photo of a very similar but slightly bigger coin I found in Forum's catalog of sold coins: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompgsold.asp?param=82879q00.jpg&vpar=85&zpg=49855&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/ (references: SNG Spaer 206, Newell WSM 960)

There is an Antiochus II at this link: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/seleucia/antiochos_II/t.html that also appears similar. Again, about halfway down the page, coin # SC 572 has a similar portrait, but seems to have a slightly different reverse. I don't think this is the one, but it's similar.

Finally, there is an Antiochus III at this link: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/seleucia/antiochos_III/t.html that shares many features as well. About 1/4 down the page, coin # SC 984 has a similar portrait and reverse, but I can't tell if the reverse has "BASILEWS" on it. My coin may be this one.
Here is another Antiochus III from Forum's sold catalog that is also very similar: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompgsold.asp?param=57104q00.jpg&vpar=85&zpg=69375&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/ (reference: Houghton-Lorber I 1050)

I also found this coin: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompgsold.asp?param=81629q00.jpg&vpar=85&zpg=24852&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/ (reference: SNG Spaer 571) on Forum's sold catalog that has Apollo standing, so it's not the same coin, but it appears to have the same "KZ monogram" as my coin.

So, do any Greek or Seleucid coin collectors out there have any opinions? Which Antiochus is my coin? And better yet, can anyone help me come up with a reference for my coin? If there is any other info I can provide, please let me know.

Thanks for your time.

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 01:29:45 am »
I recently bought a 14mm, 2.960g bronze Seleucid coin at a coin show that was labelled as Antiochus IV (photo attached to this post). I was skeptical, as it didn't look like any Antiochus IV that I had seen before, but the price was right, so I bought it anyway. After looking through a couple books and doing some extensive searches online, I just can't find any Antiochus IV that matches this coin, so it is definitely another Antiochus.
...

Thanks for your time.


Looks earlier than Antiochos IV.

PtolemAE

Offline Daniel L5

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 01:37:44 am »
I agree, that's why I posted examples of similar Antiochus I, II, and III coins. I just need help narrowing it down.

Offline rover1.3

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 03:40:59 am »
The size and weight, the style of the dies, the characteristic ΞΥ (?) monogram (associated with the mint of Antioch during the reigns of Seleukos II, III and Antiochos III - read Newell's The Seleukid mint of Antioch) and the position of the monograms suggests your coin is an issue of Antiochos III from Antioch.
Check HGC 9, 519 (SC 1049-1050) in the scan below. (click to enlage)

Offline MagisterRiggs

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 09:33:55 am »
Antiochus III
Similar Copper coin in A catalogue of the Greek Coins in the British Museum:  The Seleucid Kings of Syria

p 28 #51    and plates Seleucidae IX . 9

Offline Daniel L5

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 01:22:57 pm »
Wow, I am thrilled! Thank you guys so much for your time and effort. I really appreciate it.

I knew that monogram would be of help somehow. I'm glad you were able to recognize it, rover1.3. So it looks like I have my answer, and I'll go with SC 1049-1050.

Thanks again!

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: 14mm Seleucid Bronze of which Antiochus?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 10:21:37 pm »
I agree, that's why I posted examples of similar Antiochus I, II, and III coins. I just need help narrowing it down.

Sorry I couldn't be more specifically helpful.  Looks like others filled in the gaps nicely. 

PtolemAE

 

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