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Author Topic: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi  (Read 7004 times)

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Offline RomaDelendaest

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Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« on: September 29, 2013, 03:36:04 pm »
As the title sas I've begun to collect coins of the Diadochi or Alexander's Successors. My collection has grown by quite a bit but I only have 3 quality coins.

My favorite coins to physically look at are no doubt the Phoenician coins 300-450 BC. No doubt though, the coins with the best histories in my eyes are those of the Diadochi!

I picked up my first coin last week and it arrived in the mail on friday. It is a bronze Lysimachos from 305-280s BC with a male youth in a helmet on one side and a lion on the other. It has a gorgeous patina and I love the coin. The story behind the man who minted it and the history surroudig it is WHY I bought the coin. I mean the coin is very pretty, but its not the same reason I bought my Phoenician silvers for. Yet, I still gain the same amount of satisfaction from it.

The era of the Diadochi is my second favorite era in history. My first would of course be the Second Punic War. However, I've researched the Wars of the Diadochi for years and bought numerous books about them. The ability to hold a coin Lysimachos minted is a priceless feeling.

I aim to collect at first at least one bronze from each Diadochi who minted coins. After that I'll aim for any Diadochi coin I find appealing. No doubt I will probably find several Phoenicians that catch my eye along the way!

Does anyone like Diadochi coins, the era, the Diadochi themselves, or has any advice they wish to impart?

Offline cicerokid

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 04:34:41 pm »

No advice but  Alexander certainly put the FUN in the FUNeral games. He Might not have actually said he bequethed his conquests to the strongest but that is how it turned out.

Yep the Diodochi are great fun. Where would Hellenistic coin collecting be without them?
Timeo Danaos afferentem coronas

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 04:37:14 pm »
Agreed! Anyone know which Diadochi are known to have minted their own coins?

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 04:59:35 pm »
Agreed! Anyone know which Diadochi are known to have minted their own coins?

By that I assume you mean struck coins in their own name, as opposed to Alexander's name which all did.  

Those who stuck coinage in their own name in the decades following 305 BC after they all assumed the title of king:
Seleukos
Ptolemy
Lysimachos
Kassander
Demetrios

Ptolemy did issue a few rare types in precious metal bearing in his own name (as well as Alexander's)  prior to 305 in a short lived experiment that was apparently not well recieved.


Offline cicerokid

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 05:02:34 pm »
Seleukos, Lysimachus, Ptolemy ( and posthumous portraits),, Antigonus Monopthalmos.  Coins minted in the name of Philip Arridhaeus and posthumous Alexanders by Antipater. Demetrios Policetes son of Monoopthlamos

That the sum of my knowledge. Portraits except of Ptolemy are rare or doubtful of the Diodachi
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Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 05:07:18 pm »
Thanks guys! I'm much more familiar with the politics and warafare than the coinage of the Diadochi.

Didn't Demtrios Poliorcetes produce coins with his portrait?


Thanks guys. I found it weird Diadochi like Peucestas or other Eastern Satrapies who were nominally independent produced no coinage of their own.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 05:09:34 pm »
Seleukos, Lysimachus, Ptolemy ( and posthumous portraits),, Antigonus Monopthalmos.  Coins minted in the name of Philip Arridhaeus and posthumous Alexanders by Antipater. Demetrios Policetes son of Monoopthlamos

That the sum of my knowledge. Portraits except of Ptolemy are rare or doubtful of the Diodachi

Antigonos did not issue any coinage in his name before his demise at Ipsos in 301 BC.  Those very rare Alexander types bearing the name Antigonos formerly but incorrectly attributed to him are now firmly attributed to his grandson by Demetrios, Antigonos II  and date to the period after the Diadochi.

In addition to Ptolemy, Seleukos also issued coins bearing his visage in the form of the Susa Trophy Series e.g. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89132 and https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89133

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 05:11:55 pm »
Thanks guys! I'm much more familiar with the politics and warafare than the coinage of the Diadochi.

Didn't Demtrios Poliorcetes produce coins with his portrait?


Yes

RomaDelendaest - you can find quite a few more examples of Diadochi coins scattered through the folders in my gallery ... link below... sadly a Demetrios portrait is not amongst them!

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 05:23:32 pm »
Thanks Lloyd I'll take a look through your gallery. I've beendoing alot of research on Diadochi coins and I'm trying to build experience and my collection of Diadochi.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 05:25:11 pm »
Thanks guys. I found it weird Diadochi like Peucestas or other Eastern Satrapies who were nominally independent produced no coinage of their own.

The Eastern Satrapies were far from monetized economies at this time and that may be part of the explanation. The other is that these eastern governors were not real players in the game and are not normally considered to be amongst the Diadochi.  As such they were second and third tier players and had no access to treasuries of the time.

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 05:25:44 pm »
Thanks guys! I'm much more familiar with the politics and warafare than the coinage of the Diadochi.

Didn't Demtrios Poliorcetes produce coins with his portrait?


Yes

RomaDelendaest - you can find quite a few more examples of Diadochi coins scattered through the folders in my gallery ... link below... sadly a Demetrios portrait is not amongst them!

I have found a magnificent example of Demtrius' portrait on one side and a galley on the other here at the Forum! I definitely need to buy it!

I'll be sure to peruse your gallery :).

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 05:28:19 pm »
Thanks guys. I found it weird Diadochi like Peucestas or other Eastern Satrapies who were nominally independent produced no coinage of their own.

The Eastern Satrapies were far from monetized economies at this time and that may be part of the explanation. The other is that these eastern governors were not real players in the game and are not normally considered to be amongst the Diadochi.  As such they were second and third tier players and had no access to treasuries of the time.

A very enlightening reply! I had not thought that perhaps the East did not extensively mint coins. However, Seleukos, Cassander, Antigonus, and numerous others were minor players when Alexander died. Yet, they quickly grew in stature.




Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 05:28:56 pm »
Thanks Lloyd I'll take a look through your gallery. I've beendoing alot of research on Diadochi coins and I'm trying to build experience and my collection of Diadochi.

You'll like the Diadochi story behind this one.. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-73366

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 05:31:29 pm »
A very enlightening reply! I had not thought that perhaps the East did not extensively mint coins. However, Seleukos, Cassander, Antigonus, and numerous others were minor players when Alexander died. Yet, they quickly grew in stature.


Two words come into play in determining the ranking and rate of rise through the ranks of the Diadochi ... Ambition and Ruthlessness

Some had it (in spades) and others didn't!  8)

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 05:34:16 pm »
Thanks Lloyd I'll take a look through your gallery. I've beendoing alot of research on Diadochi coins and I'm trying to build experience and my collection of Diadochi.

You'll like the Diadochi story behind this one.. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-73366

A coin with exquisite history! Demetrius' last gasp in Asia Minor and then present at the assasination of Seleukos! Priceless!

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 05:37:17 pm »
A very enlightening reply! I had not thought that perhaps the East did not extensively mint coins. However, Seleukos, Cassander, Antigonus, and numerous others were minor players when Alexander died. Yet, they quickly grew in stature.


Two words come into play in determining the ranking and rate of rise through the ranks of the Diadochi ... Ambition and Ruthlessness

Some had it (in spades) and others didn't!  8)

Eh, while fundamentally right its a bit simplified. The death of Hephaestion and Kraterus early on created a huge power vacuum and when Perdiccas was killed it had to be filled again. The death of so many others (Leonnatus) left places open. Some were ambitious, but some were much less so. I love the sheer enormity of history involved!

Your gallery is so extensive! I am sooooo envious! I only have one Diadochi coin, that Lysomachos AE.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 05:46:05 pm »
Eh, while fundamentally right its a bit simplified.....

The story is long and involved, with every conceivable twist and turn arising from changing loyalties and disloyalty, but the motives of those involved are all the same ... it was about power .. and ambition and ruthlessness determined the outcome... of course with a large lashing of "smarts" on the part of the winners.  But it says it all that Ptolemy was the ony Diadochi to die of natural causes rather than at the spear or sword point of one of his peers.

P.S. for the purists I don't consider Antipater, the regent in Macedonia, who also died of old age a genuine Diadochi. He was beyond 70 years age at the time of Alexander's death and never a serious contender at any stage... that role fell to his son, the ruthless Kassander, who eagerly saw to it that the Argead line was snuffed out completely and for good!

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 05:56:00 pm »
Yet Ptolemy was neither the best diplomat or the best warrior of the lot. He simply chose the best satrapy and most defensible of the lot. I consider a number of Diadochi his superior.

Yet Antipater became regent after Perdiccas and effective ruler of the empire?

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 06:12:55 pm »
Yet Ptolemy was neither the best diplomat or the best warrior of the lot. He simply chose the best satrapy and most defensible of the lot. I
An example of the greatest "Smarts" to which I referred. But this would have been worthless without the ambition and ruthlessness to pull it off and there are plenty of examples of the latter in the wheelings and dealings of  Ptolemy.  It is a fact that Ptolemy was the least reliant on brute force and military prowess to achieve his ends. And the reasons are self evident.. he had no Macedonian veteran army of any consequance to face the others.  The prowess of the Macedonian veteran phalanx was a major determinant of outcomes in the immediate decade following Alexander's death and Ptolemy was at a major disadvantage on this point.  He used "smarts"  to overcome it very well inddeed.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 06:33:36 pm »

Yet Antipater became regent after Perdiccas and effective ruler of the empire?

Yes, ever so briefly and now for the explanation... a little known and infrequently acknowledged fact is that it was the role of the Macedonian Army to acclaim a king.  It is via this mechanism that Perdiccas and Antipater (both experienced and respected veterans and the most senior figures in Alexander's command structure) were made regents (on behalf of the Alexander's unstable half-brother Arrhidaios and Alexander's unborn child by Roxanne) in the east and west respectively.  Proof if required, that yet again the Macedonian veterans were determinants of the outcome in more ways than one.... either by vote of the army, or by point of sarissa!

The need for the constant and ongoing support of the Macedonian veterans behind any contender was the reason for much of high volume posthumous Alexander coinage produced in the decade after ATG's death. Support was temporarily bought, then more permanently won on the battlefield.... military prowess became the ultimate basis for any claimant to the throne and without military success the Macedonian veterans' support quickly evaporated... witness what happened to Perdiccas, then Eumenes and twenty years later Demetrios as their armies deserted them after military setbacks! Ptolemy was the least exposed to this risk by virtue of his early selection in the immediate aftermath of ATG's death of self sufficient and isolated Egypt as a power base, absent troublesome, fickle and unreliable Macedonian veterans.

Unfortunately popular historical accounts today tend to dwell on the cult of personality of each of the Diadochi, rather than coming to deal with the more fundamental issue of the societal dynamics and drivers, at the core of which in the ten years following ATG's death was the Macedonian army (-ies). Macedonia was a militaristic society and the army was the centre of all power in more ways than one. In the fragmentation of the Macedonian Empire, in the immediate aftermath of ATG's death, the role of the Macedonian veterans (which by this time represented a large percentage of the Macedonian population) is usually downplayed if not completely overlooked.  The contenders for the throne who played this militaristic cultural and societal dynamic most successfully, or effectively neutralized it (Ptolemy) were the winners.... smarts, ambition and ruthlessness won the day.

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 07:18:45 pm »
Actually most modern books do cover the points you illustrated quite well. I'm looking to buy a few more volumes and perhaps buy Arrian.

Haha, I wish I had enough money to get the larger silvers! 1000-400$ is a bit much.

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 11:07:07 pm »
Yet Ptolemy was neither the best diplomat or the best warrior of the lot. He simply chose the best satrapy and most defensible of the lot. I
An example of the greatest "Smarts" to which I referred. But this would have been worthless without the ambition and ruthlessness to pull it off and there are plenty of examples of the latter in the wheelings and dealings of  Ptolemy.  It is a fact that Ptolemy was the least reliant on brute force and military prowess to achieve his ends. And the reasons are self evident.. he had no Macedonian veteran army of any consequance to face the others.  The prowess of the Macedonian veteran phalanx was a major determinant of outcomes in the immediate decade following Alexander's death and Ptolemy was at a major disadvantage on this point.  He used "smarts"  to overcome it very well inddeed.

There is a little book by Kincaid called The Successors of Alexander the Great that also credits
 Ptolemy with diplomatic cleverness.  It also has interesting chapters on his contemporaries.  A good starter volume for learning about early Hellenistic history. Easy to get and inexpensive.  Recommended.

PtolemAE

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 11:10:14 pm »
I recommend the War's of Alexander's Successor's by Bennett and Roberts and A Ghost on the Throne by Romm.

Offline RomaDelendaest

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2013, 05:34:40 pm »
Well I just added another Diadochi coin to my collection! I bought a portrait of Demetrios on one side with a galley on the reverse. It is magnificent! Demetrios' portrait is by far the best portrait I have and the features are great. I also have a common helmeted Athena and forepart of a lion bronze with a nice green patina. In addittion, I also bought Muller's work on Lysimachos' coins!

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Collecting Coins of the Diadochi
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2013, 11:04:31 pm »
Well I just added another Diadochi coin to my collection! I bought a portrait of Demetrios on one side with a galley on the reverse. It is magnificent! Demetrios' portrait is by far the best portrait I have and the features are great. I also have a common helmeted Athena and forepart of a lion bronze with a nice green patina.

Congratulations you appear to be well on the way!

But remember a picture (posted) is worth a thousand words!

 

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