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Author Topic: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery  (Read 1376 times)

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Offline Din X

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Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« on: December 31, 2017, 05:00:24 pm »
Published fake see:
IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 9 No. 1 Page 3 Fig 13
And same obverse die
IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 9 No. 1 Page 3 Fig 14
Part of a series of struck counterfeits from Beirut.
Reverse too flat.
The border of dots which stops above the cornucopia
Counterfeiter misundertood the tip of the lotus sceptre that juts out from behind the queen's head and represented it as a die break

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=8KDmRp1YORo=

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=X/jNLFvCcts=

Does anyone understand why the dotted border is incomplete on the reverse?
The dotted border can not be explained due to striking, a flat strike or die shift would look different.
The missing dotted border can not be explained with wear or corrosion (no corrosion on gold coins).
Filled dies is imho not possible too because I would not expect that the dotted border is 100 % filled on the whole distance.
Dies can be filled with dirt etc, but does andyone really think that the letters and contours are then equally and completely filled with dirt?
On really filled dies I would expect that some parts are filled but not completely filled with dirt and other parts can be completely filled with dirt.
Incomplete dotted border implies transfer dies but I think it is rather modern dies or recutted transfer dies.

Other opinions are appreciated and welcome.

Edit 2 more found

Offline Nikola K

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 06:09:34 am »
Thanks for posting, I love these examples where forger does not understand what he is copying and makes obvious mistakes :)
For the dotted border, I would assume that it should be relatively easy to recreate, since it is made by simple tooling and there is no style to imitate.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 06:43:39 am »
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline peterpil19

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 06:18:29 am »
Fake reports filed for each of the photos above including the original ISBCC examples.

Thanks Din X.

Peter

Offline n.igma

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 06:19:06 pm »

Does anyone understand why the dotted border is incomplete on the reverse?
The dotted border can not be explained due to striking, a flat strike or die shift would look different.
The missing dotted border can not be explained with wear or corrosion (no corrosion on gold coins).
Filled dies is imho not possible too because I would not expect that the dotted border is 100 % filled on the whole distance.
Dies can be filled with dirt etc, but does andyone really think that the letters and contours are then equally and completely filled with dirt?
On really filled dies I would expect that some parts are filled but not completely filled with dirt and other parts can be completely filled with dirt.
Incomplete dotted border implies transfer dies but I think it is rather modern dies or recutted transfer dies.


Diagnostics
Note that on different "strikes" different areas are missing the border, while it is present in other areas where it was not evident before. Moreover, the missing or lightly impressed border on the obverse is matched by a missing or lightly impressed counterpart on the reverse in each case. This indicates that the border is present around the total edge on the dies, but is being variably imprinted on the flan during pressing of the coin.

Mechanism
The most likely explanation is that during hydraulic pressing of the coin the press/ram to die support geometry resulted in unequal pressure distribution across the flan during pressing, with the maximum pressure differential being edge to opposite edge. As a result the border was most strongly impressed on one edge and most weakly pressed on the diametrically opposite edge on each side of the coin. Support for this hypothesis is to be found in other elements of the primary iconography and epigraphy; those closest the border with maximum imprint are strongly defined, while those closest to and facing the weakly imprinted border are less sharply defined.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Din X

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 09:34:52 am »
Currently for sale at auction ;)


Offline peterpil19

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Re: Arsinoe II OCtadrachm published forgery
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 05:29:54 am »
A quick search of the FORVM fake coin database would have saved that vendor and any potential buyers a lot of trouble...

Peter

 

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