Can BD penetrate plastic?

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I started my sixth soaking (day 11).

There is nothing remarkable to report.

My stubborn Augustus AE As is now about 92% cleared of BD.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I started my seventh soaking (day 13).

I finished my sodium sesquicarbonate. I have none left. So, it looks like this is going to be my last soaking.

In 2-3 days, I'll probably start artificially re-patinating and waxing my coins.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I finished my seventh and final soaking. I am completely out of sodium sesquicarbonate. So, by default, this is my last soaking. I soaked 7 coins for 15 days. Of course, this is in addition to all of the soakings I did last Summer, which encompassed several months.

After rinsing the coins, I baked them in an oven at 200 degrees Fahrenheit for 20 minutes to get the moisture out.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, after baking, I started artificially re-patinating my coins. I am starting with my stubborn Augustus AE As. I am just doing that one coin for now. Since it originally had a brown patina, I decided to use Jax brown solution. Following the instructions, I soaked it for 10 seconds, flipping it 3 times, and repeating the 10 seconds each time, for a total of 20 seconds on each side. Then, I rinsed it under running water and gently patted it dry with a paper towel. I then stuck it edge down in the bristles of a toothbrush to dry/cure.

Immediately, I have 2 observations:

1) The coin came out much, much darker than I expected. It is almost black. And I used the brown solution. I can only imagine how dark it would have come out if I had used the brown/black or black solution.

2) Before soaking it in the Jax brown solution, there were still a few small green spots on the coin. I assume that these are areas of former/stabilized BD. It was no longer powdery. These areas were green, but hard. It appears that I now have a major problem. With regard to the areas on the coin surface that were still green, the Jax brown solution didn't "take". And those area now appear as "green spots". It almost looks as if the coin has green freckles. It is still very early to tell exactly how it is going to turn out because I just finished dipping it in the Jax brown solution literally about 20-30 minutes ago. But the coin is now a very dark brown color with green spots/freckles.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

I decided to re-patinate my other coins. All total, 21 coins were treated for BD. I decided to not re-patinate 3 of them. I am just going to wax them as is. And I used a different method (the "dipping" method) on my stubborn Augustus AE As, which I explained above. But I wanted to experiment and try something different on the remaining 17 coins.

So, instead of dipping them in the solution, I blotted them with a cotton swab. And I had the exact opposite result. Dipping made my Augustus AE As too dark. Blotting the other coins with a swab made them too light. The effects of the solution are hardly noticeable. I assume that I need numerous coats of it to see a marked difference.

And something very strange happened to my Marcus Aurelius AE dupondius. I blotted it with brown/black solution. And, in certain areas, it turned a greenish-yellowish color.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today is my third day of artificially re-patinating my coins.

Despite blotting it with the brown solution, my Marcus Aurelius AE dupondius turned a greenish-yellowish color again (a second time). I rubbed it off with a brass brush and re-applied it. I think the same thing happened again (a third time).

My stubborn Augustus AE As came out nice after the first coat. I decided to apply a second coat of brown solution. And the same thing happened to this coin. It turned a greenish-yellowish color. I think I figured out what the problem is. The first coat was dipped. The second coat was blotted with a cotton swab. I rubbed it off with a toothbrush and re-applied the brown solution. But I dipped it this time. I didn't blot it. I think I'm going to have to do the same thing to my Marcus Aurelius dupondius.

The instructions actually stated to dip the brown, brown/black, and black solutions, and to blot the green solution with a cotton swab. But dipping was a real hassle. That's why I blotted the second brown coat. For some of the coins where I blotted on the brown solution, that didn't happen. They didn't turn that ugly greenish-yellowish color. But, with other coins, it did. I guess every coin reacts differently.

Another problem with dipping is that I can only do one coin at a time. Since both sides are being treated at once, I must dry/cure it in the bristles of a toothbrush. I don't feel like using 18 toothbrushes. Using the blotting method, I am only doing one side at a time. So, I can rest the coins on a paper towel to dry/cure. And I can do all 18 coins at one time.

Another problem I noticed is that the solutions "take" to metal better than other surfaces. On my coins that have "funky stuff" on the surfaces and/or have blotchy/whitish patches (like my Egypt Augustus AE coin, for example), the brown solution is barely adhering to the surface, if at all. These coins still have a blotchy appearance, even after 2-3 applications.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today is my fifth day of re-patinating my coins.

Some strange things are happening. Two of my coins that I applied the brown or brown/black solution to turned an ugly greenish-yellowish color. I scrub it off, but it keeps returning every time I re-apply the solution. I dipped one (my Marcus Aurelius AE dupondius) today instead of blotting it, and I have it drying/curing in a toothbrush. Tomorrow, I'll see how it turns out. I had the same problem with my stubborn Augustus AE As. But I dipped it instead of blotting it, and that ugly greenish-yellowish stuff didn't re-appear. So, I guess that is the "trick". I must dip them instead of blotting them, except for the green solution.

Two of my coins that I applied the brown or brown/black solution to turned green. But it is a different shade of green than the ugly greenish-yellowish stuff that formed on my 2 coins above. It is actually a pleasant color. But I didn't want them to turn green. I want them to turn brown. I put those aside for now.

I don't know what the hell is going on. Some of my coins are really confusing, the way they are reacting to this process.

The green solution is taking a long time to affect the coins. I am already on my third coat, and it is hardly noticeable. I guess I need to apply numerous coats of it.

I applied Renaissance wax to 5 coins for the first time today. It's the first time I've ever used it. I'll see how it turns out. Initially, it didn't make them shinier or glossy. If anything, it made them duller (less glossy). I'll evaluate them tomorrow when they have fully dried.

Meepzorp

[SC]

Unless you pour the Renn Wax on while it is hot and melted it doesn't take long to dry.  I usually give it 15-30 minutes and then buff.  I either buff by hand with a cotton cloth or with a felt drum on my dremel (though I use an adjustable rpm dremel set on a very low rpm otherwise your coin becomes a projectile).

Shawn

[Meepzorp]

Unless you pour the Renn Wax on while it is hot and melted it doesn't take long to dry.  I usually give it 15-30 minutes and then buff.  I either buff by hand with a cotton cloth or with a felt drum on my dremel (though I use an adjustable rpm dremel set on a very low rpm otherwise your coin becomes a projectile).

Shawn

Hi otl,

Thanks for the advice. I didn't know that I was supposed to buff after waxing.

The coins that I waxed have a milky-white "halo" around the devices (portraits, letters, etc.). It looks similar to dried Elmer's glue. Is this expected?

The wax also made cracks much more noticeable. They really stand out now.

I store my coins in Mylar plastic flips. My plan is to put all 21 BD coins back in Mylar flips when this whole process (treating by soaking in sodium sesquicarbonate for several months, artificially re-patinating, waxing, etc.) is done. After the Ren wax has dried, at some point (maybe not immediately), I am going to be putting all 21 BD coins back in Mylar flips. Will it leave any residue on the plastic?

Meepzorp

[SC]

Buffing should take care of the milky white and the stuff in cracks.

Once buffed there should not be any residue coming off.

Shawn

[Meepzorp]

Buffing should take care of the milky white and the stuff in cracks.

Once buffed there should not be any residue coming off.

Shawn

Hi otl,

I buffed them today. Most of the milky-white "halo" stuff came off, but not all of it. There is still some "halo effect". It actually looks nice in a "contrasting fields and devices" sort of way. But the milky-white stuff didn't come out of the cracks. They are still very noticeable. Maybe I didn't buff hard enough?

Buffing also created a nice semi-glossy look, which wasn't there before buffing.

Thank you so much for advising me to buff.

Meepzorp

[Carausius]

Meep:
Waxing your coins is exactly like waxing your old Mustang. Anything left unbuffed in the crevices will dry white. You need to either buff harder to reach the crevices or, if you have access to a dremel tool, use a buffing wheel at low rpm to reach the difficult areas.  I'm glad you have finally reached this point in your BD treatment!

[Meepzorp]

Meep:
I'm glad you have finally reached this point in your BD treatment!

Hi Cara,

So am I. You took the words right out of my mouth. You have no idea how much of a relief it is to finally be in the "home stretch".

As you are probably aware, I started this whole process last Spring/Summer (2014). I have literally dozens of hours of work invested in it, just to save a bunch of low-value coins. But, as you've pointed out in the past, it was educational.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Last night (day 9), I continued my re-patination and waxing.

I buffed another coin (coin #6), my Marcus Aurelius dupondius.

I started waxing 2 more coins, including my Antoninus Pius AE As.

I began applying my fifth coat of green solution to 7 coins. For some reason, the green solution takes numerous coats to be effective. After 4 coats on some coins, it is still barely noticeable.

Dipping (instead of blotting) the brown or brown/black solution seems to have stopped that ugly greenish-yellowish stuff from forming on the surfaces of the coins.

My Egypt Augustus AE coin and Phoenicia Elagabalus AE coin are proving to be problematic. The brown solution is not "taking" to them. I think I need to be more aggressive with them. They both have little or no exposed metal surfaces for the brown solution to bind to.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I buffed 2 more coins, waxed 2 more coins, dipped 2 coins, and blotted 8 coins.

For 7 out of the 8 blotted coins, I started my 6th coat of Jax green solution.

All total, out of 21 BD coins, 9 coins are now re-patinated, waxed, and buffed. 2 coins are re-patinated and half waxed, but not buffed yet. And 10 coins are still being re-patinated (8 blotted and 2 dipped).

My Egypt, Augustus, 80 Nummia, AE 26 coin (RPC 5001, BMC 1) is proving to be problematic. The Jax brown solution isn't adhering to the surface in many places. I think it is because of all the "white stuff" on the surface, which I think is some sort of cement. Obviously, this stuff (cement?) was applied many decades ago, and possibly more than a century ago. This is a coin that I purchased directly from Mr. Lindgren before he passed away. It was part of his personal collection. And it may even be a Lindgren plate coin. I'm not sure. The tag doesn't specify one way or the other. I don't know if I should attempt to remove the "white stuff" (cement?). And, if yes, how? I don't want to do any damage. But this "white stuff" (cement?) is certainly contributing to making this coin rather unsightly.

I've described this Egypt Augustus coin earlier here in this thread. Someone had applied dark brown wax (?) over the entire surface, which had concealed a countermark on the obverse. That dark brown waxy substance came off during the numerous soakings in sodium sesquicarbonate, revealing the hidden countermark. It also unveiled very ugly, blotchy, and unsightly surfaces, which I suspect is the reason why the brown waxy substance was applied in the first place. Previously in this thread, some posters commented that this was sometimes done to ancient coins about 100 years ago. This coin was obviously an old find because it sat in Mr. Lindgren's collection for several decades.

I just wish that there was some way I could remove this ugly "white stuff" (cement?) that is making it difficult for the Jax brown solution to adhere to the surfaces (without causing damage, of course), and just strip this coin right down to the bare/shiny metal. Then, I can just dip it in the Jax brown solution to give it a nice patina.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I buffed 2 more coins and waxed 1 more coin.

All total, 11 coins are now re-patinated, waxed, and buffed. One coin is re-patinated and half waxed. And I am still in the process of re-patinating 9 coins (dipping 2, blotting 7).

My Egypt Augustus coin yielded another surprise. It's a kooky coin. I've been dipping it in Jax brown solution for several days.  But now, it is turning more green than brown. It is just getting stranger and stranger.

I started applying my 7th coat of Jax green solution to 7 coins. My Spain, Emerita Augustus coin is still overwhelmingly (90-95%) brown after all those coats of Jax green solution. My Sicily, Syracuse coin is still mostly (70%) brown. Those 2 coins are proving to be stubborn. But my Augustus sestertius with countermark is turning green nicely.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Today, I buffed 1 coin. I also waxed 2 coins, including my Egypt Augustus coin.

Despite dipping my Egypt Augustus coin in the Jax brown solution several times, it just kept turning greener and greener. That was strange. In fact, it is more green than brown now. And I never once applied any Jax green solution to it. The only Jax solution that I ever applied to it was the brown one.

I think I am done dipping. The only coins that I am still artificially re-patinating are the ones that I am applying the Jax green solution to. And I am blotting those with a cotton swab, not dipping.

Today, I started applying my 8th coat of Jax green solution to 7 coins. For some reason, the Jax green solution takes a really long, long time to take effect. Numerous coats are required.

Generally speaking, after waxing, I am pleased with the results. My coins are coming out nicely.

The instructions turned out to be accurate. They advised dipping (instead of blotting) in the brown, brown/black, and black solutions, and blotting (instead of dipping) the green solution. They advised 6-7 coats of green solution before you see a noticeable green color. They stated that artificially re-patinating coins is more of an art than a science, and that every coin is different. They all respond differently. That all turned out to be accurate and true. I commend the dealer on giving accurate instructions.

But there is one thing that wasn't fully expected. After waxing and buffing, my coins turned out much darker than before waxing. For some reason, the Ren wax makes the coins much darker. It isn't just a little bit darker. It is significantly darker. The Ren wax makes the coins turn a few shades darker. That wasn't expected. But, in a way, I actually like it. I am a very "dark" person, in more ways than one. And I prefer my coins dark. So, it was a pleasant surprise.

Meepzorp

[Bill W4]

I don't quite understand how you are waxing your coins.  I've always put a bit of wax on my finger and rubbed it  onto  the coin; done, buff if you want but done.  You say halved waxed.  I don't understand what you are doing there.  Perhaps I wax incorrectly when I do; but I thought I was following the instructions on the can.  Enlighten me please.

[Meepzorp]

I don't quite understand how you are waxing your coins.  I've always put a bit of wax on my finger and rubbed it  onto  the coin; done, buff if you want but done.  You say halved waxed.  I don't understand what you are doing there.  Perhaps I wax incorrectly when I do; but I thought I was following the instructions on the can.  Enlighten me please.

Hi Bill,

When I say "half waxed", I mean that I waxed only one side of the coin (the obverse). And I didn't wax the other side (the reverse) yet.

I'm afraid to wax both sides at once because I rest the coins on a paper towel for the wax to dry. If I wax both sides at once, when I flip the coin over to wax the other side, the obverse (with un-dried wax) is going to be facing the paper towel and potentially rubbing against it and smudging it. I don't want that to happen. So, I wax only one side per day. I wax the obverse and let it dry for 24 hours. Then, I flip the coin over, and wax the reverse. And I let it dry for 24 hours. The next day, I buff both sides of the coin. It takes me 2 days (48 hours) to wax one coin. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I assume that is what I should be doing. I really don't know the proper time interval to wait for the wax on one side to dry. So, just to be extra careful, I wait a full day.

How long does Ren wax take to dry? I wait 24 hours.

Maybe someone out there who has more experience with using Ren wax than I do can chime in.

Meepzorp

[SC]

I add a tiny bit of wax.  Usually a tiny splotch on my baby finder or on a cloth.  I then rub it around the coin and try to ensure it has darkened the whole coin.  I remove - just by scooping it off with my finger or cloth - any obvious excess.  The coin is now several shades darker.  I usually do both sides at once and then lay the coins against / supported by a bamboo skewer that lies on a paper towel.

Then I wait any where between 15 minutes and an hour.  I then buff either with a dry cotton face cloth or by using a Dremel with a felt drum.  The Dremel is on very low rpm.  Once buffed I lay the coin back on the bamboo skewer on paper towel. 

I get the coin the next day and it has usually lightened up most of the way back to the original colour.

If your coin stays dark too long you might have too much wax on.

Shawn

[Meepzorp]

I get the coin the next day and it has usually lightened up most of the way back to the original colour.

If your coin stays dark too long you might have too much wax on.

Shawn

Hi otl,

Thanks for sharing that.

No, my coins do not lighten up back to their original color. They stay dark permanently (after waxing), several shades darker. They are significantly darker than before waxing and buffing.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "too much wax", mainly because I've never used Ren wax before in my life. This is the first time I am using it. When I wax my coins with Ren wax, as I explained above, I do one side at a time (per day). Then, the next day, I wax the other side. Then, the next day, I buff both sides. The entire waxing process takes about 48 hours.

The amount of Ren wax I am using is very little. At least, in my mind, it is. On each side, I rub in a semi-spherical blob of Ren wax that is approximately 3-5 mm in diameter. I also do the edges with that same blob. I repeat for the other side. Is that too much?

Meepzorp

[Bill W4]

Meepzorp;  I think you're using too much.  I have a one ounce tin which is 3 years old and should have another 2 or 3 years in it.  I just run my fingertip on the wax and apply it to the coin.  Like it says on the back of the can,"a little goes a long way".  It seems to dry in about 15 minutes.  I don't think thicker is better when it comes to wax though maybe not in your case.  I don't know, opinions vary.  I use it prophetically on some bronze coins but not all.  It doesn't seem to darken them after it dries.   Bill

[Molinari]

Back when I used to wax coins it never darkened them.   Perhaps the wax is interacting with the toning/patination agent you applied?

[Jay GT4]

You are just putting way too much wax on the coin.  Way too much!

[SC]

Yup. I struggled with how to give you a measurement of the amount I use. Often it only glistens on my finger or the cloth. You can even see any wax. If you see some it is like one piece of coarse sea salt. Maybe 1-2 cubic mm. All you need to do is get the surface to darken slightly all over. The buffing later will do the rest.

Shawn