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Author Topic: help with hieroglyphs and symbols  (Read 5916 times)

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Offline Marco J

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help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« on: November 03, 2012, 03:11:05 pm »
hello
I am Brazilian, so sorry for any english mistake, do not write very well!

I bought three scarab and need help with translation

Tks!!

Marco Aurelio

Offline Marco J

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 11:29:51 am »
Need Help... This simbols, Hieroglyphs!! what is written?










TKS!!

Offline Molinari

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 03:41:25 pm »
I think only the second one has hieroglyphs, the others just have decorative symbols

Offline Marco J

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 05:17:33 pm »
the 3rd and the 4th I know ... but the 1st? could have been done carelessly?
and for this reason we can not read?

trks

Offline Marco J

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 09:20:03 am »
Really the symbols are merely decorative. They do not form a word. You can identify the scarab, kpr, in the center, but the other signs do not form a homogeneous set. If the information on the period is correct, we are already between the Late Period - when governments are no longer, in some moments, Egyptians - and the Ptolemaic Period, when the language used by the general population was no longer Egyptian, but a mixture of Egyptian with Greek - the demotic, and it was used by governments only Greek. It may be an appropriation of an Egyptian symbol of rebirth by foreigners, with a funeral or apotropaic use, but it is difficult to say that this really is.

Tks!!

Offline Russ

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 09:16:33 pm »
Hi Marco,
     All of your scarabs are ancient, but crudely made and may not have been made in Egypt.
     Reference your fourth scarab - a spiral/scroll centered with two lateral embellishments. An exact parallel to this scarab is known, see Warren, Peter. Problems in Chronology in Crete and the Aegean in the Third and Earlier Second Millennium B.C. in American Journal of Archaeology, Vol 84, No.4, October, 1980: page 495, Fig. 7-9, Plate 58, "Scarabs. Lebena, Crete, Tomb IIA, Herakleion Mus. No. 1997". in which Warren and G.T. Martin agree on a date of the First Intermediate Period, citing the findings of Brunton and Morant, see Brunton, Guy and Morant, G.M. Mostagedda and the Tasian Culture, British Museum Expedition to the Middle East 1928, 1929. London: Bernard Quaritch, 1937, Plate LX, Number 72 and Plate LXVII, Number 8, Tomb Group 5006-XI.
     I hope this helps.
Russ

Offline Russ

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 12:54:36 pm »
Hi Marco,

     While researching my own scarabs, I came across some more information about your 4th scarab - with coil/spiral scroll centered.
See:
1.     Quibell, J.E., Clarke, S. and Tylor, J.J.  El Kab, Egyptian Research Account 1987. London: Bernard Quaritch, 1898: page 20, Number 20, Plate XX.
2.     Peet, T. Eric. The Cemeteries of Abydos, Part II - 1911/1912, Thirty-fourth Memoir of The Egypt Exploration Fund, London, 1914: Plate XXXVII, Numbers A5 and R16.
3.     Engelbach, R. et al. Riqqeh and Memphis VI, British School of Archaeology in Egypt and Egypt Research Account Nineteenth Year 1913. London, 1915: Plate XVII, Number 11/106, dated to the reign of Amenemhat III.
4.   Steinbuchel, Anton von   Scarabées Egyptiens Figures du Musée des Antiques de sa Majeste L’Empereur, Vienna, Antoine Strauss, 1824: Number 155, Plate III.
     I believe the two lateral embellishments beside the scroll are vestiges of lotus buds, see:
5.   Tufnell, Olga and Ward, William. Relations Between Byblos, Egypt and Mesopotamia at the End of the Third Millennium B.C., A Study of the Montet Jar. In Syria, Revue D’Art Oriental et D’Archéologie, Tome XLIII, Fasc. 3 and 4. Paris, 1966, pp. 165 to 241. Number 10, Plate XIII.
     Years later, Ward wrote an article about the physical characteristics of the scarabs in the Montet Jar, and the size and shape of your scarab seems to fit, see:   
6.     Ward, William. Scarabs from the Montet Jar: A Late Eleventh Dynasty Collection at Byblos in Berytus Archaeological Studies, Volume XXVI, 1978, Beirut: American University of Beirut, 1978: pages 37 to 53.
     I hope this helps.
Russ

Offline Russ

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Re: help with hieroglyphs and symbols
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 07:56:30 am »
Hi Marco,
     For your third scarab with spirals and nefers design... for an identical design motif on another scarab, see:
     Gayer-Anderson Scarab Collection, page 48 "Scarab with spiral design with two mirrored nefer signs. Steatite. Middle Kingdom - Second Intermediate Period. 1.5 cm. Portland Art Museum 29.16.22b at www.dped.com/Gayer-Anderson_Scarab_Collection.pdf

Russ

 

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