Classical Numismatics Discussion
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Author Topic: Hybrid Versus Mule?  (Read 3802 times)

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Offline Britannicus

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Hybrid Versus Mule?
« on: September 23, 2012, 01:57:48 pm »
Is there a difference between a hybrid and a mule in descriptions of ancient coins consisting of obverses and reverses that are normally understood as not belonging together? Are these interchangeable terms or do they each refer to a different category of die combinations?

For example, perhaps one coin has an obverse and reverse normally understood as not belonging together, but both are from the same ruler, whereas another coin might combine an obverse and reverse from two different rulers. Or does a mule refer to a coin struck from dies where at least one of them would normally be seen on a different denomination?

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 02:03:05 pm »
You answered your own question ;D Click the blue word mule and hybrid to go to numiswiki

Offline areich

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 02:07:30 pm »
But are those descriptions correct? I thought hybrids struck in an official mint were called mules so while all mules are hybrids, not all hybrids are mules. Is that correct?
Andreas Reich

Offline Britannicus

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 02:09:17 pm »
You answered your own question ;D Click the blue word mule and hybrid to go to numiswiki

Jay GT4.

Ah, thank you! Of course the blue links did not appear until after the topic was posted. So then let me ask some related questions: which would be most preferred in a description? Which would you prefer to use? Are there any other little-used terms that could be applied to some of the distinctions I described in my original question?

And as areich asks, are the definitions of hybrid and mule provided when following the links truly accurate?

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 02:29:38 pm »
As far as I know there is no distinction between the numismatic uses of the terms hybrid and mule.  I could, however, be wrong. 

The numismatic term mule is derived from the animal mule, the hybrid offspring of a horse and a donkey, due to such a coin having two sides intended for different coins, much as a mule has parents of two different species.
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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 03:04:44 pm »
The term "hybrid" has become tainted in my mind, because so many of the coins so described in the earlier RIC volumes and in Roman Silver Coins are nothing but ancient counterfeits.

Therefore I prefer to say "mule" for coins struck at the mint from mismatched official dies.

The distinction official/unofficial is crucial. Official mules are for the most part very rare, and interesting as error coins and for showing a chronological connection between dies that we otherwise wouldn't have known were in use at the same time.

Unofficial hybrids are very common and teach us nothing about the chronology of the official coinage.
Curtis Clay

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 08:44:05 am »
I agree the distinction between official and unofficial is crucial.  I do try to ensure our sales listing identify if a coin is official or unofficial.  I will follow your suggestion to use mule only for official hybrids.

I will update NumisWiki
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Offline Britannicus

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 11:55:02 am »
Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your help in answering my question by clarifying these two terms.

It does seem to me that consistency in their usage is very important, but must be based upon a clear understanding of the distinction between die mismatches that are official versus those that are unofficial. Curtis Clay has done a wonderful job of explaining this.

Thank you again, I learned something valuable!   +++

Mike

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 12:25:53 am »
Therefore I prefer to say "mule" for coins struck at the mint from mismatched official dies.

The distinction official/unofficial is crucial. Official mules are for the most part vey rare, and interesting as error coins and for showing a chronological connection between dies that we otherwise wouldn't have known were in use at the same time.


Would you also agree that the term 'mule' is inappropriately used when it makes the assumption that the mismatch was an accident without evidence that the mint did not make the pairing intentionally?  The most common examples of this, to me, are the pairings of Constantinopolis and Urbs Roma obverses with Two Soldiers reverses.  Another group is the Eastern mint denarii of Julia Domna using masculine reverses.  While these are not exactly common coins they are much too frequent to be accidents beyond a level of just not caring what reverse die was used.  Several of the Alexandria mint Septimius reverses were copied from other rulers' coins including the date numbers appropriate for Lucius Verus or Pertinax but not Septimius but I have seen no evidence that the dies used were ever used for the appropriate rulers.  Are these 'mules'?  I believe not.  To be a mule, should a die pairing be known used separately with appropriate opposites adding evidence that the coin is official rather than just a good metal but unofficial products?  Obviously many solid unofficial coins are betrayed by their unofficial style but I am not always comfortable saying where the worst official and best counterfeit dies meet in terms of style.  I'll accept being fourree as evidence of being unofficial but being solid is not as certainly an indicator of being official.   One place I am uncomfortable in this regard are coins of Magnentius which raises the question on whether the rare Falling Horseman coins of Magnentius are intentional official, mules or barbarous.   What coins, then, are left to be called mules?

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Hybrid Versus Mule?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 11:22:09 am »
I use the word "mule" only for unintentional miscouplings of official dies. Therefore mules must be rare; very common die miscouplings can hardly have been unintentional. Roma or Constantinople with two-soldier reverses, or Julia with masculine rev. types at Eastern mints, are comparatively common, so must have been intentional, so for me do not qualify as "mules".

It is very easy to recognize undoubted mules in the main Roman imperial coinage, for example a denarius of Septimius Severus in good silver and official style showing a dated reverse type of Caracalla, or bronze coins of Trajan with TR P on both sides, because those obverse dies were meant to be coupled with reverses omitting TR P.

Of course one has to be careful not to be deceived by excellent ancient imitations in the proper metal and displaying almost official style. The possibility of stolen mint dies (or false dies mechanically derived from authentic coins) used in incorrect combinations by contemporary counterfeiters also has to be kept in mind.
Curtis Clay

 

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