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Author Topic: Photo shop issues with blacking out background  (Read 1587 times)

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Offline Dk0311USMC

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Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« on: July 30, 2011, 01:04:05 pm »
I have more recently been working on cataloging my collection on FORVM.  My first pics in my gallery are pretty amateur, and now I'm working on better pictures and trying to isolate the coins getting rid of the background.
  It seems like a problem I'm running into is not being able to completely highlight the background and shop it out with either black or white.   Seems like any picture I take there is still grains I can't get rid of when trying to isolate anything but the coin.  With others it will want to fill in parts of the coin if the edges are dark in places and ect... With pictures from a few different types of backgrounds I still run into the same problem.  An example of my issues is below.  If anyone knows of any useful tricks or was able to overcome this easily, please fill me in.  Maybe I just need to figure out the perfect background.

Thanks, Danny

Offline PeterD

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2011, 01:34:49 pm »
Firstly take your pictures against a plain background -mid grey is ideal but white is OK depending on the sophistication of your camera's automatic exposure.

Secondly place the coin some distance from the background, either on a sheet of glass or on a short length of dowel. That way any shadows will be out of focus and less dense and will not 'compete' with the shadows on the coin itself.

That should make it much easier highlight all the background and none of the coin.
Peter, London

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Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 01:45:22 pm »
I did take a new round of pictures of much of my collection recently where I did put a pen cap under the coins that time to create some distance.  Unfortunately the background was a table cloth that had a pattern on it.   When I took the pictures I was figuring that the photo shop program would work by telling the difference between the foreground and the background, but playing around with it now, I suppose thats not how it works.    I don't have those newer pictures loaded on this computer, but I'm afraid because of the backdrop, I will run into the same problem with those.

Offline Akropolis

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 01:46:52 pm »
A key is to have sharply delineated edges of the coin, with the same background color and texture. This is a function of lighting and the background upon which you photograph the coin. You may have to have two lighting sources to eliminate the lower shadow. Use exactly the same lighting and backgound for both sides of the coin.

From your images, it seems apparent that there were shadows on the bottom edge of the coin images....different color and texture.

Once you learn how to evenly illuminate/contrast the coin edges, use the "Magic Wand" to select the area to be filled by the "Paint Bucket." If the selection is still a bit away from the coin edges, increase the "Tolerance" setting in the toolbar above and try again. If you increase it too much, part of the coin will be "selected." Back off and try again.

Then use the "Paint Bucket" tool.

Chances are that you may still have to use the "Paintbrush" tool to touch it up.

There are other, more complex Photoshop tools you can use for selecting-out the coin such as using the "Extract" method (choose "'Filter" then "Extract" from the toolbar above) but this is tricky and may result in jagged edges despite your best efforts. If you want to try it anyway, go to "Help" and type "Extract" into the "Search" box. It will tell you how to use the technique.
Good luck.
PeteB

Offline Steve E

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 01:55:57 pm »
If you are talking about rephotographing your coins, not editing out the background in P.S., maybe I can help.

You might laugh, but I've started photographing my coins in a trash can :o

I bought a small white (translucent) office trash can to help diffuse the light. I inserted a black pencil (black dowel will work) into a 2 by 4 piece of wood cut to fit the can. Covered the wood and base of can with a piece of black velvet cloth.

This is roughly based on Doug Smith's set up. The coin is placed on the flat end of the pencil, which gives about 9" of separation from the background. I covered the outside of the can, up to and level with the coin, with black construction paper, to minimize light reaching the background. That leaves about 4" from the coin to the top of the can, for the light to diffuse through. This combined with the separation distance from the back ground, are sufficient to remove any background detail.

I light the coin with 2 halogen desk lamps, that I can place on the outside of the can where ever looks best. The can is rectangular, so I usually place the lights at the cornes for max. diffusion, and one closer than the other. I took a piece of cardboard and covered it with aluminun foil, with a hole cut in the center for the lens to fit through, for a a cover on top of the can to reflect some light back to the surface of the coin to show better color on bronze patinated coins. This may not be needed with bright silver coins.

This set up was not very expensive! Lights $25 each, trash can $3, velvet cloth $2, the rest was just scraps and incidentals I had around the house.

I use a Canon S3-IS with a macro feature. I would rather use my digital SLR, but don't have a macro lens for it yet :'( For some reason I keep spending all my money on coins and ref. books ::)

Here are a couple examples of the results from the above set up.

I hope this helps.

~Steve


Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 02:07:01 pm »
Thanks guys.   looks like I need to create my own little coin picture taking studio with some objects like many others on here.  My problem is that I am usually Mr mom when I'm at home to my 2 young kids, so I have been quickly trying to snap some pictures when they are both down for a naps.  I probably need to take the time to develop a good backdrop and lighting area to really make it work properly.  Time is a very valuable resource that I seem to be short on these days.  Hopefully ill be able to get something together sometime.   Ill have to load my more recent pics onto the computer first and see if by any luck they are easier to work with.

Offline Steve E

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 02:16:51 pm »
The nice thing about the trash can set up is the staging area is self contained and mobile. Just keep it out of reach of small hands ;)

That only leaves setting up the lights and the tripod/camera.

~Steve

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 01:15:47 am »
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/coinphoto2011ez3.html

As has been said above, the big secret to being able to clean up a background is to shoot on as plain a background as possible.  My new page above might give some ideas.  First decide what background you want (black or white) and then shoot so you can get close to the goal 'in camera'.  You can make a black background into a white one but it is easier to make a very light grey one white and a very dark gray one black.

Offline slokind

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 05:42:40 am »
If a photo is to be used for a reference as well as a framable picture (and that Doug's all are), one thing (and the primary issue with black-hole grounds) is that the exact contour and kind of roundedness of the edge of the coin must at all costs be preferred.
Thus (referring to the new page that Doug just linked to) I have no problem at all with the wonderful Pautalia Graces (or, with one pouring from an ewer, are they water nymphsPautalia was famous for her hot mineral springs, still is.  Nymphs are usually clad, but Graces usually don't pour water).
The other photo of the coin, on the other hand, is strictly for the art-photo market, because without any reflection the lower edge is obscured, is not properly discernible.
Crayola colors and black are the only backgrounds I dislike, and I dislike them particularly when they are evened out and deny that coin is a real, solid object existing in real space and light.  I find the preservation of this truth extremely difficult to master, but it is my ideal.  Neutral gray 8 or 9 mm below glass is my choice, at this time: the best I can do in my circumstances.
As Doug said, we all will have our preferences and for a variety of reasons.  I am terribly negatively conditioned by suffering from Philistine calendar art and regrettably blacked out or whited out backgrounds of art objects and sculptures.  One must really hate art to deny its existence in space and light!  It is true that many LRB AE4s have little thickness, but most coins have both thickness and irregularity of thickness: a study photo must show that.  For me, at least. 
Pat L.
Here is a STUDY photo of one of those Philip II riders, truly rendering its typical shape and great difference of convexity and concavity.  Actually, since it was photographed above gray, it also could be magic wanded and paint bucketed, but then you'd lose the 3-D info.
CLICK TO ZOOM

Offline hannibal2

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 09:28:01 am »
If you are not a camera 'buff' there is another way i found acceptable (to me anyway). Just by way of photoshop.

You need some time, a steady hand, and a measureful of patience.

Blow up the image by zooming in, the more the better--you will know when it right. Use the eraser set to a small diameter and work round the edge. You can choose what to remove or to leave from the interface between coin and whatever background there is. Sometimes the coin and background just blend together without colour separation. Use your judgment. Once the coin is separated from the rest, the latter can be removed by the magic eraser.

You are left with a clean image which in photoshop you can superimpose on anything you like. You can use it in layers in between to create your own 'coin hoard'.

The result will not be better than what you start with from your camera or from where ever it is sourced. It helps to get a good picture at high resolution to start with.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Photo shop issues with blacking out background
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 05:45:29 pm »
I went ahead and added a few more coins to my gallery as they were since I already had the pictures taken and was satisfied enough for the time being to post them. (mainly because of my time issues)  A couple I do want to re do though and get better pics. 

I also posted a thread in the Gallery discussion page about my new additions.

 

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