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Author Topic: New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources  (Read 12903 times)

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Offline cicerokid

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New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources
« on: July 12, 2011, 05:11:05 am »
Issue Date   TYPE                                              Comment                                                Intercal   
1   164/3   No Sign                                       2 Monograms               
2   163/2   Kerchnos  & Bakchos              2 Monograms               
3   162/1   No Sign                                        2 Monograms               
4   161/0   No Sign or Cornucopiae              2 Monograms               
5   160/9   2 Palms                                      2 Monograms               
6   159/8   Club                                              2 Monograms                      
7   158/7   Rudder                                      2 Monograms                      
8   157/6   Nike                                               2 Monograms               
9   156/5   Trophy                                       2 monograms               
10   155/4   Ear of Grain                              2 monograms               
11   154/3   Caps of Dioscouri                      2 monograms                
12   153/2   Cicada                                       2 monograms    Start of Month Dates               
13   152/1   Two Serpents                               2 monograms                N            
14   151/0   Term of Hermes                      2 Monograms               
15   150/9   Kernos                                       AMMO - DIO   Start of Control Letters               
16    149/8     Palm Leaf behind Owl                Partial monogram) First Striking of month dates (Lor R field )& control letters (on amphora) together                         
17   148/7   Cornucopiae                               AMMO - DIO  Controls only               
18   147/6   Trident Head                                ADEI - ELIO    Controls only               
19   146/5   Cock with Palm                        XAPI - ERA  Controls only               
20   145/4   Forepart of Horse                      Monogram --LUSIA  Month on Amphora Control in field or under position mixed               
21   144/3   Thyrsos                                       2 Monograms               
22   143/2   Apollo                                      DIOPHA - DIODO         Reverse overstrike   
23   142/1   Macedonian Helmet & Star       DEME - IERO                     
24   141/0   Eagle                                       2 Monograms               
25   140/9   Nike holding Wreath   Note 2a      KTESI - EUMA  Order change from Thompson         N            
26   139/8   Aplustre           Note 2b              2 monograms    Order change from Thompson               
27    138/7     Helios Bust                              GLAU - ECHE                                                               N            
28    137/6     Nike driving Quadriga              MIKI - THEOPHRA               
29    136/5     Lionskin Club & Bowcase              3 Magistrates Start  HERE - ARISTOPH               
30   135/4    Asklepios Snake & Stick               MENED - EPIGENO                                               N            
31    134/3     Anchor & Star                               TIMARCHOU - NIKAGO                    
32   133/2     Winged Caduceus                       POLYCHARM - NIKOG               
33   132/1    Forepart of lion                       DOROTHE - DIOPH               
34   131/0    Elephant                                       ANTIOCHIOS - NIKOG / KARAICHOS                
35   130/9    Winged Thunderbolt               THEOPHRA - SOTAS                                              N            
36   129/8  m  Dionysus,Thyrsus & Cup                DIOGE - POSEI                 
37   128/7  m  Cornucopia & Grain Stalk                ACHAIOS - ELI                     
38   127/6  m   Cicada                                         LUSAN - GLAUKOS               
39   126/5  m   Eagle on Thunderbolt                EPIGENE - SOSANDROS               
40   125/4  m   Tripod                                        POLEMON  - ALKETES               
41   124/3  m   Prow of Ship                                KARAICH - ERGOKLE               
42   123/2  m   Discouri                                        MIKION - EURYIKLEI                 
43   122/1  m   Nike                                                APHRODISI - APOLECHI               
44   121/0  m  Three Graces                                EURYKLEI - ARIARA                                                 N            
45   120/9    Double Cornocopia                        APHRODIS - DIOGE                 
46   119/8   Helios in Quadriga                        DIONYSI - DIONYSI                
47   118/7   2 Torches                                        AMMONIOS - KALLIAS                
48   117/6   Trophy on Prow                        THEOMISTO - THEOPOMITOS             
49   116/5   Apollo Delios                                SOKRATES - DIONYSODO            
50   115/4   Bunch of Grapes                        METRODOROS -MILTIADES / DEMOSTHEN           
51   114/3   No Symbol                                DIOTIMOS - MAGAS             
52   113/2   Triptolemus in Chariot                EUMAREIDES - ALKIDAM / KLEOMEN             
53   112/1   Demeter & 2 Torches                CHARINAUTES - ARISTEAS              
54   111/0   Artemis with Torch                        PHANOKLES - APOLLONIOS            
55a   110/9    Artemis with Fawn                         EUBOYLIDES - AGATHOKLE     Both in            
55b   110/9   Bee                                                ZOILOS - EUANDROS             one year             
56    109/8    Quiver & Bow                                  DAMON - SOSIKRATES               
57   108/7   Tyche                                         EUMELOS - KALLIPHON            
58   107/6   Winged Tyche & Amphora A        HERAKLEIDES -  EUKLES (1)                
59   106/5   No Symbol                                THEODOTOS - KLEOPHANES                 
60   105/4   Winged Tyche &Amphora B         HERAKLEIDES -  EUKLES (2)                               N         
61   104/3   Dionysus & Demeter                ANDREAS - CHARINAUTES            
62   103/2   Wreath                                        IKESIOS - ASKLEPIADES            
63   102/1   Dionysus mask & Thyrsus        TIMOSTRATOS - POSES                                       N            
64   101/0   Ears of Grain                                AMPHIKRATES - EPISTRATOS                
65   100/9   Tyche Staff & Cornocopia         DOSITHEOS - CHARIAS                                       N            
66   99/8           Gorgon Head   ++                        NIKETES - DIONYSUS               
67   98/7           Pegasos  ++                                ARISTION - PHILON               
68   97/6           Caps of Dioscouri  ++                DEMETRIOS - AGATHIPPOS                                     N *            
69   96/5           Winged Agon ***                        AROPOS - MNASAGO               
70   95/4           Coiled Snake  ***                        XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS ( 1) 2 Magistrates               
71   94/3           Hermes / No sign  ***                NIKOGENES - KALLIMACHOS  2 & 3 Magistrates               
72   93/2           Headress of Isis ***                DEMEAS - HERMOKLES 3 Magistrates                       N            
73   92/1           Dolphin & Trident  ***                XENOCLES- HARMOXENOS ( 11)  2 Magistrates                
74   91/0           Kerchnos***   note 1                MNASEAS - NESTOR      2 Magistrates               
75   90/9           Roma ***                                 XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS ( 111) 2 Magistrates               
76   89/8           Roma & Nike ***                        KOINTOS - KLEAS  3 Magistrates               
77   88/7           Griffin ***                                APELLIKON - GORGIAS 3 Magistrates               
78   87/6           Star between Crescents ***          note 4   KING MITHRADATES - ARISTION   2 Magistrates always from now                           
79   86/5           2 Ears of corn ***                       KOINTOS - CHARMOST * Imitation Restored*              
80   85/4           Beatyl with Fillets ***               KLEOPHANES - EPITHETES                          N   NO Z   
81   84/3           Harmodios&Aristogeiton ***       MENTOR - MOSCHION            
82   83/2           Isis ***                                       ARCHITIMOS - DEMETRI             
83   82/1           Poppy Head **                       LUSANDROS - OINOPHILOS            
84   81/0           Demeter Single Torch **               AMPHIAS - OINOPHILOS            
85   80/9           Ares ? **                                       EUMELOS - THEOXENIDES            
86   79/8           Stag **                                       NESTOR - MNSEAS                                           N         
87   78/7     Bakchos **                               SOTADES - THEMISTOKLES            
88   ??   Demeter & Artemis **                       LYKIOS - ANTIKRATHES            
89   ??   Herekles **                                       PANTAKLES - DEMETRIOS            
90   ??   Looped Fillet **                               THEOTHRASTOS - THEMISTO            
91   ??   Sphinx **                                               DIOPHANTOS - AISCHINES            
92   ??   Isis  **                                               DEMEAS - KALLIKRATIDES            
93   ??   Apollo with Lyre              note 3       MNASTORGORAS - MENTOR              
94   ??   Helmet                                               ALKETE - EYAPON            
95   ??   Dionysus                                               DIONYSIOS - MNASTAGORAS            
96   ??   Apollo Lykeios                                       EPIGENES - XENON            
97   ??   Demeter                                               MENEDEMOS - TIMOKRATES            
98   ??   Hekate                                               MENNEAS - ERODES            
99   ??   Winged Caduceus                               DIONYSIOS - DEMOSTRATOS            
100   ??   Cicada                                  No tetradrachms known (Democharcs-Pammenes)            
101   ??   Asklepios                                               DIOKLES - LEONIDES            
102   ??   Dionysus                                               PHILOKRATHES - ERODES            
103   ??   Triptolemus                                       KALLIMAXOS - EPIKRATES            
104   ??   Fillleted Thyrsos                               ARCHITIMOS - PAMMENES             
105   ??   Hygiaie                                               DIOKLES - TODEY - MEDIOS            
106   ??   Demeter                                               APELLIKON - ARISTOTELES            
107   ??   Head of Eagle                note 5       HERAKLON - ERAKLEIDES            
108   ??   Hekate                                               TRYPHON - POLUCHARMOS            
109   ??   Nike                                                       PHILOKRATHES - KALLIPHON            
110   ??   Dionysos                                               TO TRI  DIOKLES - DIODOROS            
111   ??   Athena Parthenos                               DIOKLES - MEDIOS            
112   53/
    42 BC? Artemis END of NEW STYLE COINAGE ??   APOLECHIS - LYSANDROS            
   
Note 1      Here because of Morkholm  " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29  1984  Also intercalary N , the only intercalary without a Z month indicates that there appears to be little chance of a Z being a sideways N.            
   Note 2a, 2b      Order change : H. B.Mattingly  " Some Third magistrates in the Athenian New Style silver coinage" J Hell Stud 1971             
   Note 3      Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm  " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner.   Habicht 1994 does not have this coin in his list- a fatal weakness?            
   m      Sequence from :Meadows   " "Thasos" / New Style Hoard"  in Coin Hoards 9            
   ***      Sequence from Morkholm " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29  1984            
   ++      Sequence from "Review of LGPN 2"   H.B. Mattingly NC 1997            
         Thompson knew 110  issues NOW 113, consisting of the Star & Crescent King Mithradates " special issue", restoration of the KOINTOS "imitation" and the NEW MNESTAGORAS- MENTOR  SEATED APOLLO with LYRE from the Hierapytna hoard. Does the Slave Revolt / No Coinage  year actually add a year or even exist?  The V large issue of Caps of Dioscuri .issue 69 has been stated to be a correction for a no issue or a very low previous issue due to the Slave revolt at Laurion. There is no room or evidence for a very low issue previous.            
   note 4       Morkholm has King Mithradates as issue 78 because Fawn / Bee given 1 issue number since  BOTH only in one year            
   N*      New intercalary :  MacDonald, D  * A new Athenian intercalary tetradrachm" SM 192 1999            
   **      Habicht, Ch " zu den munzmagistraten der Silberpragung des Neuen Stils"  Chiron 1991 Habicht does not include the APOLLO with LYRE. NEW COIN and just basically follows Thompson  each descending year down to  54/3 BC. Not defensible really because of so few coins and likely new finds. So stopped at  Backhos.            
   note 5      A die link, but not absolute positioning from the "Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm  " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner.            
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 05:23:33 am »
Here it is my long awaited  sequence list of New Style silver coins from all available sources.

The bedrock is Thompson, M.  " The New Style silver coinage of Athens" ANS 1961 and this compilation is the changes to that.

After the king Mithradates issue issue 78 the New style sequences becomes actually patchy with low numbers of coins known and in one case no known tetradrachms  and only enough types to go yearly to the 50's BC.

I have stopped when I think that the evidence for tight sequencing and accuracy becomes untenable  Maybe I should have stopped a bit earlier...who knows.


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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 09:59:16 am »
BTW, comments & suggestions, criticisms &  rebukes etc are most welcome.

Remember there is no original work of mine here it is a compilation.

Also I can only read English and my copy of Habicht is not liked by google translate.  It doesn't recognise some German letters and huge German words, nevermind technical words. It misses meanings altogether.  It is quite a task trying to understand what it is trying to say...bit like ancient Greek.

All sources (available to me ) is just that.  Recently, David Macdonald was very generous and  a great help with his and a few other sources that he provided.

I continue to seek new sources as well as trying to read old more dated sources: they might come back into fashion with one new discovery!

Where say, Mattingly, has done a sequence shift due to not wanting 2 intercalery years adjacent, I have allowed this because nobody I can find has argued against it.
Nobody really knows if the Athenians were" hung up" about regular intercalery years or not.

Coins do TEND to show there were largish gaps between known intercalary coins, albeit of irregular lengths. This is reflected in my compilation.

David MacDonald published a new Athenian intercalary coin (but with little response).

That would tend to show that others might have existed , but also remember that not every month was necesseraly minted:there are many gaps in amphora month dates for coins, but some gaps are being filled with new coins coming to the market-see my last coin MIKION- Nike driving Quadriga discussion in Forum's Members Gallery.


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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 08:26:38 am »
Thanks, Cicerokid.  Great info.

Offline cicerokid

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Some modern notes on Athenian New Style tetradrachms : CICADA 153/2 BC
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 12:30:47 pm »
djmacdo wrote as a comment on one of my posts that maybe I should write brief notes on my researches to expand and fill -in Thompson's catalogue in her brilliant work " The New Style silver coinage of Athens" ANS 10 1961.

For some short while I have been collecting and storing e-bay and other auction images and the information ( often wrong) on these types.
For the early catalogue this is an easier option and thus I have started here with Cicada. These coins are the first type to exhibit a control and always on the amphora.
 
I have noted new amphora month  letters T= in Thompson, NEW= New to Thompson and the source the evidence was obtained.
I have diligently identified the Obverses as they appear in Thompson. This is often wrong or just given as an approximate reference in sales details.

Other sources are publications which I can only have access to a very few and then just happen on them  in the fine details. There are 3 such notes at the bottom of the table indicating a new obverse which I have designated with an X since C Lorber said it was close to T68 as T68X.

New reverses can only be properly designated, if the amphora letter is NOT previously known to Thompson, because of the limited number of reverses in the plates. The obverses are more important.
Thus New amphora letters obviously mean NEW reverses, but on my research I located a unique
 ( not now: see below) RIGHT SIDED CICADA symbol coupled with an early obverse that shows the symbol position was not fixed at first. sadly the amphora letter is impossible to read for this example but one could reasonably summise an early one.

Where possible I shall attach photographs and I shall acknowledge the sources. Since this is a research article I can only crave the owners indulgence for my usage.

Well here goes.


CICADA 153/2 BC


Amphora
Letter   Thompson?   Obv                                     Comments
A   T      
B   T      
Γ     T                                              T66                                   Confirmed NumismatikLanz sept 27
Δ   T      
E   T      
Z   NEW                                       T72                                     CNG Coin shop research
Z
(retrograde)   -      
Z
(3rd type)      -   
Η   -      
Θ   T      
I   T      
K   T      
Λ   NEW                                           T69                                    Source ROMA May 22nd 2013 auction
M   T      
N   -      
N      -
(retrograde)         

New Obverse noted by C Lorber in “Commerce “Demetrios 1” Hoard” 2003 (CH 10.301). Noted as being close to T 68 but new.
Designated T 68X
 
New reverse: Cicada in the  Right field: Not imitation     Source: CNG research                                         112, Lot: 31. Closing Apr 13, 2005 at 9:31:00 a.m. ET. ATTICA, Athens. Circa 168/5-50 BC. AR New Style Tetradrachm (34mm, 16.65 gm). Struck 153/152 BC.
The Obverse is T 65.
This early obverse is paired with a reverse ( but sadly unreadable in the right sided Cicada),associated with amphora letter A shows that the position of the Cicada symbol was not fixed at first.

A 2nd example also with T65 Obverse but with a NEW REVERSE die  is noted from the Gaziantep Hoard ( below), again the amphora cannot be read. This takes published precedence over the CNG coin
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Offline cicerokid

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With amphora letter Z    Source CNG reserch
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With  :Greek_Lambda: amphora letter . Source ROMA NUMISMATICS May 22nd auction 2013
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Right sided Cicada symbol. Source CNG coin shop research
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Here is the New Obverse which I designate 68X.

C Lorber identified it in the Demetrios 1 Hoard in CH X, where she stated it was close to Thompson 68.
Hence 68X

The reverse is not mentioned. I take it since she has access to all of Thompson's reverse plates at the ANS that it is not new. It is a pity that the reverse was not said to be known with control X, or that the matching example has an amphora that is unreadable.
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Offline cicerokid

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I have found a second Right sided cicada in the literature.

The Athenian New Style coins plates in "Le debute des teradrachmes ed' Athenes du "nouveau Style"
:un tresor trouve pres de Gaziantep en 1994" by Auge,Davesne & Ergec in Anatolia Antiqua V  1997 feature this 2nd example but is not really remarked on in the catalogue except as being obverse T65.

Thus this has precedence over the CNG coin above, and has the same obverse T65 but the reverse is different hence New.

Both coins look unquestionably genuine Athenian mint coin.

Top from "Le debutes"
below CNG coin
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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 02:40:32 pm »
Is the 1961 Thompson article on New Styles available in monograph form? 

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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 03:35:52 pm »
Yes in a  2 volume book. The New Style silver coinage of Athens", Thompson, Margaret.  ANS 10,  New York 1961

I don't think it has ever been reprinted since 1961.

I obtained it through the British lending library. ( It is in 2 volumes Vol 1 text, Vol 2 Plates).

The publishers, the ANS, do not offer a download. Why I cannot fathom.

Copies are rare and expensive.

Even though it's dating was quickly and convincingly found to be erroneous, generally its sequencing more or less survives intact.

From time to time articles are written and a portion of, maybe, a new, amended portion of the sequencing appears ( Meadows: Thasos- New Style) or a part of the original sequence is just reproduced ( Meadows: Gazientap hoard)

As above all I did was collate what I could find and alter the original list.

I know that someone is working on the Pontic- Mithradatic times sequence and may publish their work in time.

(My actual list contains the die- links & types information which is vitally important but does not transfer)


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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 04:08:40 pm »
Thanks! When I see citations referring to "ANS", I generally assume it is an ANS annual journal article.

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Re: Cicerokid's New Style list compilation from all available sources
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 12:17:24 pm »
This is actually what the top of my list looks like complete with die links and types.

It also has shaded areas  where the "old catalogue" is split into Thompson's 3 catagories of early.middle early and late early.
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Re: Some modern notes on Athenian New Style tetradrachms : CICADA 153/2 BC
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 06:38:26 am »

In Thompson there was some doubt cast upon the :Greek_Gamma: on the amphora of the cicada series. Various authors had said  :Greek_epsilon: or  :Greek_Gamma:?. Thompson herself thought  :Greek_Gamma: and gave the Obverse as T 66.

This specimen on NumismatikLanz daily auctions is, despite the corosion obverse T66 and there is no doubt of the  :Greek_Gamma: on the amphora. CONFIRMED
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Re: New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2019, 11:43:16 am »
Hello,

126/5  m   Eagle on Thunderbolt                EPIGENE - SOSANDROS     
weight: 16,74 gr.

How rare this type? Thanks.

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Re: New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2019, 03:32:50 pm »
It's a very nice example, clear controls.

MOSXI as 3rd magistrate.
Obverse is Thompson 445 possibly T445a in NSSCA.

Sadly not rare! This is one of 4 coins dubbed the "over-represented" coins as found in Macedonian/Thraken  coin hoards say in Bulgaria.See Decallatay.

They are Twins of Dioscuri, Tripod, Eagle on Thunderbolt and prow .

Why they are found in such numbers together must be due to mercenary payments probably by the Romans to its allies paid for by the Athenians. These coins are official Athenian mint products.
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Re: New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2019, 03:45:04 pm »
My example:

Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet
16.65gm 32mm Thompson issue 39
Thompson catalogue Obs 450 : Rev b (not in plates)
Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic
Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora
on which month mark Ε control ΗΡ below
3 magistrates : EPIGENE SOSANDROS ELIODO
LF symbol : Eagle on Thunderbolt
All within a surrounding olive wreath
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Re: New Style Athenian Tets - Discussions and Resources
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2019, 05:18:31 pm »
Thank you! You have very beautiful coin!

 

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