Author Topic: My First Photographs (Read 6093 times)

Optimo Principi · « **on:** March 31, 2011, 04:48:57 pm »

Hi all,

I am a complete photographic beginner and am using my Canon Ixus 85IS to photograph my collection, slowly but surely. I have dual daylight lamps, a good copystand and the coin is resting on glass. After looking at some of my first efforts I am puzzled by a decidedly green tinge to the coins, denarii which are a lovely silver to the eye look like they've just come out of a pond under the camera. I've tried experimenting with different settings but I can't seem to capture that silver lustre. Attached are a couple of unaltered examples, any ideas/feedback would be much appreciated.

areich · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:04:38 pm »

They don't look that green to me, a tiny bit perhaps. The question is now, whose monitor is not properly calibrated?
There is a way, using the GIMP (a free Photoshop alternative) to correct for that. The menu should be called COLORS -> VALUES (or LEVELS?). There you can 'choose a grey spot' and the color balance is then adjusted to remove any tint. Once I did that your original did look a little too green.

areich · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:11:31 pm »

On my monitor it looks a little too red now but I can't get it calibrated properly.

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:11:42 pm »

I noticed the colour deficiencies on my camera monitor first and then again when I uploaded them. To illustrate more clearly, here is the sale photo of one my coins next to my own photo. I obviously don't expect my first attempts to be as good but is it the lighting, the camera or a combination that makes their photo so much more colourful and accurate?

maridvnvm · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:31:35 pm »

Do you have any other lights in the room where the photos are being taken e.g. neon strip? I ask because neon is on more green on the light spectrum.
I turn all light sources other than my two daylight lamps off when taking my photos.
Martin

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:43:45 pm »

Quote from: maridvnvm on March 31, 2011, 05:31:35 pm

Do you have any other lights in the room where the photos are being taken e.g. neon strip? I ask because neon is on more green on the light spectrum.
I turn all light sources other than my two daylight lamps off when taking my photos.
Martin

Hi Martin, no I have all lights out in the room apart from my two Ottlite lamps.

maridvnvm · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:51:42 pm »

Are you using Auto White Balance or have you set you white balance using a photographic grey card commonly called a Custom White Balance?
It could be that your bulbs as not quite a close to daylight as you would like.
I looked at the Nerva in Photoshop and took the green down a very small amount in the colour balance to get an image that looks better on my screen.
Regards,
Martin

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:59:44 pm »

Quote from: maridvnvm on March 31, 2011, 05:51:42 pm

Are you using Auto White Balance or have you set you white balance using a photographic grey card commonly called a Custom White Balance?
It could be that your bulbs as not quite a close to daylight as you would like.
I looked at the Nerva in Photoshop and took the green down a very small amount in the colour balance to get an image that looks better on my screen.
Regards,
Martin

The white balance (which I don't fully understand the workings of) is on auto at the moment. This is my photo after eliminating the background and a little brightening. Not too bad really...

maridvnvm · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:10:05 pm »

The Auto White Balance feature on cameras attempts to take a light temperature reading from the light sources available and makes an attempt to automatically adjust that light temperature to daylight. This leads to the light temperature being adjusted automatically by the camera when the image is created. This can lead to a slight colour cast.
When we customise the white balance we take control of what is happening in the setting of the light temperature. We take a photo of a photographic grey card and then set the camera to use this image when setting the Custom White Balance. The camera knows what a grey card should look like in daylight since it is programmed into it and can then adjust the light temperature accurately to daylight based on the way the card is lit.
If you do this then the colours in the image should be as close to real life as possible.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,
Martin

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2011, 08:49:55 am »

Thanks for your very informative responses Martin. I've found the Manual White Balance on my camera and am going to experiment more this evening. Will update with my next few attempts.

Rich Beale · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2011, 09:29:58 am »

Just seen this thread. You will get a better photo if:
1) Your camera is not pointing directly down at the coin. A 15-20 degree angle away from the coin is best.
2) Your light source is, depending on the brightness, 5-10cm away from the coin, and at an angle of 20-30 degrees away from the coin.
If you have a flourescent light, use the flourescent setting on the camera for silver; use auto for bronze.
3) Ensure your background is not too reflective.
4) Don't worry too much about the minor colour variations, these can be easily fixed in photoshop in about 5 seconds.

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2011, 09:54:06 am »

Quote from: Rich Beale on April 01, 2011, 09:29:58 am

Just seen this thread. You will get a better photo if:
1) Your camera is not pointing directly down at the coin. A 15-20 degree angle away from the coin is best.
2) Your light source is, depending on the brightness, 5-10cm away from the coin, and at an angle of 20-30 degrees away from the coin.
If you have a flourescent light, use the flourescent setting on the camera for silver; use auto for bronze.
3) Ensure your background is not too reflective.
4) Don't worry too much about the minor colour variations, these can be easily fixed in photoshop in about 5 seconds.

Thanks for the advice, Rich! I do have a fluorescent setting actually but had not thought to use it. Will experiment and update later.

Rich Beale · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2011, 10:20:31 am »

Yes, you will find it does make a difference. Also just saw my poor spelling... 'flourescent' - must be some sort of baking product...

dougsmit · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2011, 03:40:58 pm »

I suggest it is better never to use any 'auto' setting because it is quite possible to shoot the same coin twice and get two slightly different colors/exposures due to a minor position change. Use Manual White Balance and an exposure determined by trial and error (shoot several and keep only the best until you determine what works for you).

The ones shown are close enough that they could be tweaked in a postprocessing program (Photoshop or other) and close enough that they will look different to different people because so few have their monitors calibrated to any common standard. Some of you will look at my photos and see something completely different from what I see simply because we are not both calibrated exactly. My monitor is set to produce the colors I want when I take the files to the printer of my choice (my local Costco) which may or may not be what would make the files look best on your computer. Most of us would say, close counts but some are really picky on this and will disagree.

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2011, 06:28:55 pm »

Once again, thanks for all your constructive feedback. I had another try this evening (after finding the white balance settings on my camera and buying some grey photographic card). I am happy with the results but would be grateful to hear your opinions. A few samples below...

maridvnvm · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2011, 05:17:23 am »

Those look very nice indeed on my monitor. I have been tweaking my setup for the past two years and have now hopefully stopped as I have reached results that I am happy with. Try and get a setup that you are happy with, from which you can get consistent results and then stick with it.
Regards,
Martiin

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2011, 05:44:10 am »

Thanks Martin, before I embarked on photographing my whole collection I wanted to achieve a set up that would do them justice. It's not perfect but it's coming along. I had done alot of reading on FORVM but I've learned so much in the past few days by actually experimenting with different lighting positions and camera set ups, there really is no substitute for practical learning. One of the main things that has quickly become clear is that every coin is different and demands its own special consideration regarding lighting, settings etc.

areich · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2011, 08:39:41 am »

These last pictures are really good, I don't think you could make any significant improvements to them.

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2011, 08:12:36 pm »

Quote from: areich on April 02, 2011, 08:39:41 am

These last pictures are really good, I don't think you could make any significant improvements to them.

Thanks for the positive feedback! Here are just a few of tonight's photographic efforts. I'm pretty happy with them, for a beginner with a compact camera I don't think they're too bad.

dougsmit · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2011, 09:37:25 pm »

On Trajan Mars Adv O.jpg at the left edge, I believe there is an area where the selection of the background is ragged probably due to the glare on the edge confusing the selection tool. It might help to go back to the original and adjust the selection manually or change the settings so the background selects and the coin edge does not. I do not see this on any others and the overall work is quite nice.

moonmoth · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2011, 02:50:26 am »

I can see a ragged edge selection in several places. It can be hard to deal with. In Photoshop I try reducing the "tolerance" setting for the paint bucket (*), but this has the drawback that it can leave chunks of the background not deleted. If this doesn't work, I use the quick mask option to mask out parts of the coin to not be affected by the paint bucket. This takes longer, but is more accurate, and because most ancient coins have edges made of a series of curves, you can usually use a circular brush or eraser to do this, varying the radius as required.

Nice photos!

(*) Some people use the magic wand tool rather than the paint bucket; the selection process for both of these works in the same way.

Bill

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #21 on:** April 06, 2011, 12:01:06 pm »

I've realised that I'm having trouble keeping the very edge of the coin in sharp focus. As the edges are blurry the Paint bucket is not identifying it correctly.

Is there anything I can do about this or have I just hit a technical wall with my Compact IXUS Camera?

areich · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2011, 12:16:10 pm »

Well thanks for making me feel bad. I've got an Ixus too but my pictures are nowhere near as good, especially the silver.
Which model is it?

Optimo Principi · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2011, 12:37:02 pm »

Quote from: areich on April 06, 2011, 12:16:10 pm

Well thanks for making me feel bad. I've got an Ixus too but my pictures are nowhere near as good, especially the silver.
Which model is it?

It's an Ixus 85 IS, couple of years old now.

http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_camera/ixus/digital_ixus_85_is/index.aspx

Does the job for most things but I think I may be asking a little too much of it with this type of macro photography.

moonmoth · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2011, 12:45:53 am »

That camera is fine. The difficulty with the edges is probably because the way the light hits the coin means that the tone of the edge is very similar to the tone of the background. I don't get this problem with bronze coins. On the other hand, I have just processed a photo of a toned denarius on which the paint bucket tried to select large areas of the coin!

If the coins are lit mostly from one side, you will probably find that you only have this problem on that side. On the other side, the paint bucket will be reluctant to get right up to the edge because of the shadows around it being of a different tone to the main part of the background.

Bill

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Author Topic: My First Photographs (Read 6093 times)