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Author Topic: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?  (Read 1687 times)

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Offline mattpat

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Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« on: September 11, 2009, 01:50:36 pm »
Is this a fake coin ?
I can not see clear evidences but I do not trust it, because this coin is very rare.

Thank you for your advice

Patrick

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 03:03:17 pm »
Looks authentic to me, but the architectural details of the arch a little tooled.
Curtis Clay

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 02:27:09 am »
Looking at the sharper image I get on my home computer, it seems to me not impossible that the reverse has been entirely recut from some common type.

In order to eliminate this possibility, I would like to find that same reverse die used on another coin!
Curtis Clay

Offline mattpat

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 12:49:10 pm »
Hi Curtis,

On his excellent site Matthew Sersch shows 2 coins with the same reverse die:

http://msersch.ancients.info/1arch.htm

Maybe this can help you.

Patrick


Offline mattpat

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 12:51:04 pm »
Hi Curtis,

On his excellent site Matthew Sersch shows 2 coins with the same reverse die:

http://msersch.ancients.info/1arch.htm

Maybe this can help you.

Patrick




Which is commented by you ...

Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 01:46:11 pm »
Unfortunately, not the same dies.

The coin that started this thread is in my opinion not original, tooled at best, completely fake at worst. The font on the reverse is not correct for early issues of Trajan, being too small and too square. I also don't like the construction of the arch. On the specimen on Matt's site, the specimen in the BN, the specimen plated in Banti and the specimen in Calico, there are 2 steps below the columns, not one as on this coin. Also the size of the horses on this coin are proportionally too small compared to the other examples. This coin also appears to lack the two large trophies that should flank the horses, suggesting the engraver wasn't aware that trophies should be there. Also, on the other examples, the columns appear to be slightly in front of the arch itself giving the entire design a 3 dimensional look, whereas on this coin the columns are an integral part of the arch. Finally the columns appear to be fluted but none of the other specimens show any fluting, though this could just be wear.

I'm also not happy with the relative low relief of the entire design.

A feature on the obverse that bothers me is the knot of hair below the T in TRAIAN. On every other specimen I can find from this period, not just of this reverse type, there is a slight indentation at this spot indicating the crown of Trajan's head, whereas this coin has the noticeable knot of hair. The first coin on Matt's page and the BN specimen may actually be from this "same" obverse die and both lack this feature.

I also find the even dark green patina not 100% convincing as I've seen this color with the ever so slight earthen highlights on many a tooled coin.

Barry Murphy

Offline mattpat

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 02:24:09 am »
Hi Barry and Curtis,

Thank you for your advice.
This coin is currently on *that* site.
The bidders are kept private, so many alerts.
However, this coin is very deceptive.

Patrick

Offline xintaris75

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 06:23:57 am »
Fabric looks same with Sicilian fakes, like this one
Ω ΖΕΥ, ΠΑΤΕΡ ΖΕΥ,
ΣΟΝ ΜΕΝ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΥ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ.
ΣΥ Δ' ΕΡΓ' ΕΠ' ΑΝΘΡΩΠΩΝ ΟΡΑΪΣ
ΛΕΩΡΓΑ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΜΙΣΤΑ.
ΣΟΙ ΔΕ ΘΗΡΙΩΝ ΥΒΡΙΣ ΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΚΗ ΜΕΛΕΙ.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 03:02:41 pm »
I believe the coin is a cast fake.  I have about a half dozen coins here with the same "patina."  They look like they have a thick slightly rough patina but in reality the patina is thin and it is the metal itself that is rough.  Some are fairly dangerous fakes casts from genuine coins, but it looks like they cast this one using a tooled coin.  At a glance, it looks tooled to me because it is more symmetrical than I expect for an ancient architectural type.     
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Offline Galaxy

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 12:35:06 pm »
Same coin, reappearing for sale??


Offline Ryan C

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 02:03:10 pm »
It is not the same coin, but you may have found another fake, cast from the same dies. Some of the details are very similar, I would have to look at them side by side to make a definitive call.
Ryan Collins, happy member of the Forvm.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Trajan sestertius triumphal arch fake ?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 02:11:25 pm »
They are both cast fakes from the same mold.
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