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Author Topic: Who is Mantho?  (Read 13511 times)

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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Who is Mantho?
« on: May 07, 2009, 12:06:38 pm »
Two coins from Thessaly, Pelinna on Wildwinds identify a person or god depicted as Mantho.    

Wildwinds Pelinna

We have a Mantho page in NumisWiki:  

Mantho

An Egyptian, a priest at Heliopolis in the reign of the first Ptolemy (B.C. 283-246), and who was the first Egyptian to give in Greek an account of the history and religion of his native country. The original works of Manetho are lost, but copious extracts remain preserved by the ecclesiastical writers, especially Iulius Africanus, Eusebius , and Georgius Syncellus. The sources of Manetho's history were the early archives and sacred books of Egypt, and in recent years much corroborative evidence of the truth of what he wrote has been derived by Egyptologists from the hieroglyphics and other sources. The fragments of Manetho are collected and edited by C. Mller in his Frag. Hist. Graec. (Paris, 1856).

Is this the Mantho on the coins?  If so, why at Pelinna?  A Google search didn't turn up anything for me.
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Offline esnible

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 03:01:51 pm »
I am also interested in the answer!

Many years ago I got a Mantho casket bronze in a lot of uncleaned Greeks.  I never did figure out who he was.

Do you have The copper coinage of Thessaly.  I was never able to find a copy.  That might have some info.

An Inventory of Archaic and Classical Poleis, a newer book which usually has good research, says the coin depicts "the sibyl Manetho".  A sibyl is a woman, so I am confused....

Offline Jochen

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 04:07:02 pm »
Hi!

Very interesting question. I have searched for Mantho last year but never came to a solution.
 
Here is a text where Mantho is mentioned as one of the sibyls:
Balthasar Porreflo wrote in Spain in 1621,
"Besides these twelve already stated there are
others mentioned, such as Mantho, Daphne
daughter of Tiresias . . . Cassandra, Xeno-
clea, Melisa and Lampusa, and Strabo in his
Geography mentions many others";
https://tinyurl.com/wvswmuf

Der Kleine Pauly:
1) The daughter of the seer Teiresias was Manto (without h), also called Daphne. She was a seer too and the mother of Mopsos. But I don't know wether Manto is the same person as Mantho.
2) In Verg. Aen. 10, 198 is mentioned a presaging nymph Manto, later mother of Ognus by the river-god Tiberis.  

Mantho as entry to Wikipedia seems to be a typo.

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Offline Dino

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 04:27:51 pm »
See the final paragraph below

From

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Abbé Banier's Ovid commentary Englished
from Ovid's Metamorphoses (Garth tr., Amsterdam, 1732)
Daniel Kinney, Director,
with much help from Rebecca Knerl Perederin


THE EXPLICATION OF THE TWELFTH FABLE.  [ I.xii Daphne into a Laurel ]

     To explain this Fable, as well as all the other Gallantries of the Gods, which the Poets speak so frequently of, we must lay it down as a Principle, that besides that there are many Jupiters, many Apollos, many Mercurys etc. which I have proved in my Explication of Fables, the Priests of those respective Deities frequently sanctified their Debaucheries with the Names of the Divinities they served; from whence proceeded that prodigious number of Children that claim'd those Gods for their Fathers.

     This Principle being establisht we may thus explain the Fable of Daphne. Some Prince, among the number of those to whom the love of polite Learning had given the Name of Apollo, falling in love with Daphne Daughter of Peneus King of Thessaly, and one day pursuing her, the young Princess perish'd on the Bank of a River in her Lover's sight. Some Laurels growing near the place gave rise to her Metamorphosis; or rather the Etimology of the word Daphne, which in Greek signifies a Laurel, was the occasion of publishing this Fable. If we credit Lylius Giraldus, Daphne was so called from Δαφωνέω, voco, because the Laurel makes a crackling noise in burning. And as this Tree was consecrated to Apollo, from thence we have according to this Author, the Fable of his and Daphne's Amours. However Pausanias (1) gives another turn to this Adventure. He says Leucippus, Son of Oenomaus King of Pisa, the very same who gave his Daughter Hippodamia in marriage to Pelops, falling in love with Daphne disguised himself in Virgin's Apparel to accompany her in Hunting, which she loved exceedingly, and consecrated her self to Diana according to the Custom of those Times. The Care and Assiduity with which he attended his Mistress, very soon procured him her Friendship and Confidence; but Apollo his Rival having discover'd the Intrigue, one day redoubles the Heat of the Sun: Daphne and her Companions going to bathe themselves would oblige Leucippus to follow their example, but he declining it under several pretexts they resolved to undress him; and having them discover'd what he was they killed him with their Arrows. Pausanias in relating this Event mixes, as you see, something of the Fabulous. But as it is certain on the other hand that Oenomaus had a Son called Leucippus, who perish'd in his Youth in very near the manner he relates; to rectify this Narration, it is sufficient to say that one day when it was very hot, the Virgins having forced the young Man to bathe himself, they found out his disguise and punish'd him for his Insolence.

   Diodorus Siculus (2) assures us that this Daphne is the same with the Fairy Mantho, Daughter of Tiresias who was banish'd to Delphos, where she wrote many Oracles; of which Homer made a very happy Use in his two Poems. Needed there any more to prove her the Mistress of Apollo? The Inhabitants of Antioch pretended that this Adventure happen'd in the Subburbs of their City; which from thence bore the name of Daphne. St. Chrysostome, following Libanus describes a fine Statue of Apollo which stood in those Subburbs: The God held his Harp in one hand, and a Cup in the other, with which he seem'd to offer Libations to the Earth that had swallow'd up his Mistress.

Offline Dino

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 04:34:44 pm »
Also from

A mythological dictionary By Charles Kent, William Charles M. Kent

Sibyls. Certain renowned women inspired by heaven with prophecy and other celestial knowledge. They are generally regarded as numbering ten, residing usually in the following places : Persia, Libya, Delphi, Erythraea, Samos, Tiburtis, Cumae in ALolia, Ancyra in Phrygia, and Marpessa on the Hellespont. The most celebrated of all was the Cumsean Sibyl, variously called Amalthea, Demophile, Herophile, Daphne, Manto, Pheimonoe, and Deiphobe; she conducted Eneas to hell, and offered successively nine, six, and at last three prophetic volumes to Tarquin.


Offline Dino

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 04:37:57 pm »
A counterargument to the proposition that Daphne and Mantho are one and the same from

http://www.goddess.org...

Pagan Goddesses and Gods of the Delphi Oracle
by
MaatRaAh

Ovid makes Daphne the daughter of the river God Peneus, and the blunt (literally of Cupid's revenge) Apollo chided Cupid one day for his use of the bow, and bragged how his arrow never failed, and how he slew Python with countless darts. Cupid countered by telling Apollo "You are far above all creatures living, and by just that distance your glory less than mine". Cupid then waited for his revenge. That was not long coming, when Cupid saw Apollo approaching the place where Daphne bathed in her father's pool. He drew from his quiver two different arrows, one gleaming golden and sharp, the other deadeningly blunt, tipped with lead to drive all love away, and this he used on Daphne, while he shot Apollo with the stinging sharp arrow of love, through bone, through marrow, and through the heart, and he loved Daphne. Daphne had many suitors, bus spurned them and made the marriage torches hateful and criminal to her. Apollo pursued her, telling her he was lord of Delphi, Tenedos, Claros and Patara and Zeus was his father. But she fled and Apollo, driven by the superior power of love gave chase. She escaped him at first, but his relentless pursuit drove her to terror and exhaustion, and seeing the river of her father she cried for his help. Her father heard and "when her limbs grew numb and heavy, her soft breasts were closed with delicate bark, her hair was leaves, her arms were branches, and her speedy feet roots and held, and her head became a tree top. Everything gone except her grace, her shining. Apollo lover her still. He placed his hand where he had hoped and felt the heart still beating under the bark; and he embraced the branches as if they still were limbs, and kissed the wood, and the wood shrank from his kisses," and from that time on he loved the Laurel above all trees.
The truth of the matter is, Daphne (laurel) was the daughter of Teiresias, the blind Theban Prophet who gave birth to her during the seven years when he had been a woman. His other daughter, Manto [the mother of Mopsus, the seer] he sired after he was a man again. Daphne and Manto were both taken captive when Thebes fell in the generation before Troy. Manto was sent to Ionia where she married Rhacius, King of Caria, by whom she had Mopsus--said to be the son of Apollo. Daphne remained a virgin and was sent to Delphi; most likely to add the power of Teiresias to the Delphi oracle which had recently (within 100 years) been taken over by the Apollonians. There she became the Sibyl. There are some who say that Manto had her name changed to Daphne when she was sent to Delphi, but this is perpetrated by Apollonians who forget that the Sibyl spurned Apollo's love, while Mopsus was the son of Apollo and Manto.

Offline slokind

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 06:11:28 pm »
Considering that mantikos means 'of prophetic utterance' and manteia was both prophecy and an oracular shrine, it is not surprising that Mantô should be given as a name to a sibyl.  Names in -ô are typically feminine.
Pat L.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2009, 12:24:53 am »
We now have both Mantho and Manetho entries in NumisWiki.
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Who is Mantho?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2009, 08:09:10 am »
An addition from Smith's Dictionary:

MANTO (Mavrri). 1. A daughter of the Theban soothsayer Teiresias. She herself was a prophetess, first of the Ismenian Apollo at Thebes, where monuments of her existed (Paus. ix. 10. § 3), and subsequently of the Delphian and Clarian Apollo. After the taking of Thebes by the Epigoni, she, with other captives, was dedicated to Apollo at Delphi. The god sent the captives to Asia, where they founded the sanctuary of Apollo not far from the place where afterwards the town of Colophon was built. Rhacius, a Cretan, who had settled there before, married Manto, and be­came by her the father of Mopsus. (Apollod. iii. 7. § 4 ; Paus. vii. 3. § 1, ix. 33. § 1 ; Strab. ix. p. 443 ; Schol. ad Apollon. i. 908.) According to Euripides, she had previously become the mother of Amphilochus and Tisiphone, by Alcmaeon, the-leader of the Epigoni. (Apollod. iii. 7. § 7.) Being a prophetess of Apollo, she is also called Daphne, i. e. the laurel virgin. (Diod. iv. 66 ; comp. Athen. vii. p. 298.)

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