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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here  (Read 135374 times)
Ghengis_Jon
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« on: May 05, 2009, 12:34:18 pm »

For some reason, this coin struck me as funny, so I thought I'd share.   We had a very educational thread on coins with dimples, so why not tooling?
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casata137ec
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 01:22:31 pm »

I kinda like his 70's porn star mustache! lol

Chris
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Ghengis_Jon
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2009, 03:50:22 pm »

The seller acknowledged the tooling on this one, earning him honesty points.`
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Jay GT4
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 12:25:48 am »

The seller acknowledged the tooling on this one, earning him honesty points.`

That one's not so bad!  There are some real pathetic ones out there.
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xintaris75
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 09:09:54 pm »

I also have one "beautiful" example of tooling...
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 01:42:08 pm »

I also have one "beautiful" example of tooling...

Could those be two nearly identical cast fakes?
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 02:07:01 pm »

I also have one "beautiful" example of tooling...

Could those be two nearly identical cast fakes?

Yes, i was puzzled with this coin too. This part of scratch looks really strange. But a wear looks good, and exist and another examples from this obv. die at close condition, which seems undoubtly struck.
So, i think it's mostly crazy tooling, not forgery. IMHO.
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 12:37:08 am »

seems like a cracked die?
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xintaris75
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 01:43:14 am »

seems like a cracked die?
Agree with you. Cracked and repaired. This scratch can be welding seam at die, curl engraved after repairing.
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Ghengis_Jon
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 12:37:36 pm »

Hair style by Dremel...
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 07:58:23 pm »

Someone's had a go at the inscriptions as well.
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Ghengis_Jon
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 04:56:01 pm »

Another hair style makeover...
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 09:08:56 pm »

That was once a nice coin, if the reverse is as good.
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Robert Brenchley

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Ghengis_Jon
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 01:25:47 pm »

Couple more examples.
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ecoli
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 09:10:28 pm »

that oddly goes well with your profile picture Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 01:49:34 am »

Another hair style makeover...


That one looks like a nice hairpiece! Anyway, I have seen another form of "tooling" that might be a new way to scam customers.  I purchased a Claudius coin that was "tooled" electronically.  What I mean by this is that the coin was enhanced via computer software to fool the customer.  I bid on it on ebay thinking is was more detailed and nicer than it actually was.  The coin turned out to be worn with less detail.  I was pleased and upset at the same time.  I was pleased that the coin was authentic, but upset that I overpaid for it.  I did not spend much, but definitely a little more than the coin was worth.  Has anyone else seen such a phenomenon?

Best, Noah
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2009, 07:30:54 pm »

Yes, I remember one general dealer a few years ago with a lot of coins to sell who turned them all green, even the silvers. The coins themselves were OK.
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Robert Brenchley

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Ghengis_Jon
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 12:40:59 pm »

Smoothed with a fresh coat of paint.
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 06:45:25 pm »

Paint!  I hate it, it is so messy to remove.  I have found it on several coins that havem't been smoothed at all, just crudely stripped, with the thick paint filling in the holes in the porous surface.

Bill
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2009, 01:39:30 pm »

As a relatively new collector I'd like to know what are the main tell-tale signs of tooling? Obviously some of these examples have blatantly been interefered with, but that Hadrian sestertius on the previous page would have fooled me. :/
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2009, 01:53:02 pm »

You just have to look at a lot of genuine coins to develop an eye for it.
That's pretty much the same answer you'd get if you asked how to spot fakes.

Usually with tooling the wear pattern is not correct.
That means that the high points are not (or don't appear) as worn as they should be.

What's usually tooled are the laurel wreath, where individual leaves are no longer distinguishable,
the hair and folds in the garment.  The result is often a great contrast of amazingly preserved detail (which has been tooled in) and an otherwise pretty worn coin. These details are the first that are worn down.

Plus the tooled parts just look unnatural. It's not always easy to spot and takes a while.
If you suspect tooling, just compare with other (untooled) examples on Coinarchives.

Usually after tooling the tooled parts (or the whole coin) are repatinated, because tooling is basically scratching the coin
and scratches are easily visible. So that's another thing to look for.


Andreas
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Andreas Reich
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2009, 02:05:21 pm »

Very useful, thanks Andreas. The logic that a coin's raised features will naturally be the first to ware is easy to forget when excited by a coin's level of detail. Will now cast a suspect eye over such coins in future.
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agord
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2009, 09:34:53 pm »

Anyone care to venture an opinion as to what this coin was before the rework? 28-30 mm 20.86 gms
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Will Hooton
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2009, 09:39:14 pm »

Marcus Aurelius? Been retooled to look like a Vitellius. Very poor effort!
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ecoli
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2009, 09:44:30 pm »

or commodus or A. Pius

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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here « previous next »
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