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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Geta ∆29 sold unidentified. Can you? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Geta ∆29 sold unidentified. Can you?  (Read 3736 times)
slokind
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« on: January 16, 2009, 11:16:39 pm »

This ∆29 weighing 11.41g was purchased here as an unidentified coin and has been bothering me since it arrived.  It looks Lydian or Mysian.  I cannot identify enough either of the legends or of the figures to use Isegrim or the like effectively.  Even with raking light, even in hand under 180 watts or the noonday sun I cannot quite make out the letters in the reverse exergue (although they donít spell either homonoia or neokoron).
I should like to read GERM N‘N, but I really cannot.  The reason Iíd like to give it to Germe is that the fabric does resemble Germeís and she is the only city that I can find that spells out SEPTIMIOS (to the left of his head) before GETAS.  Germe, however, has listing (Kay Ehling) of no coins for Geta as Augustusóand he clearly is laureate hereóand her coins for Geta as Caesar do not match this portrait very well.
On the reverse are two deities; they even may be joining hands.  Ordinarily, such pairs of deities can be at least tentatively identified; these cannot, though an unconventional Athena (her shield in front of her legs!) might be argued.  The other one has no ascertainable attributes but seems gentle.  Each seems to support herself on a staff of some kind (a male deity cannot be precluded but seems less likely).  None of the circumferential letters is legible, in any light. 
That leaves us with the ethnic presumed to be in the exergue, apart from the spelling out of ĎSeptimiusí the only real clue.  It might or might not be an homonoia issue.
Well, coins that Forvm cannot identify are not expected to be easy.  I took numerous pictures and attach here those that came out least bad.  Neither I nor my universityís library have the resources to isolate how many mints of NW Asia Minor spell out Septimius in Getaís name and issue coins for him as Augustus.
I need someone who has the same coin or one of its dies in good, legible condition!
Pat L.
CLICK EACH IMAGE TO SEE IT BETTER
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dougsmit
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 04:09:50 am »

This might be a good place to try making a plaster cast or an aluminum foil pressing.  The granular texture makes it harder to read and a cast with no color variations could show a letter or two better.
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slokind
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 01:28:46 pm »

I'll try foil right away, and (if there are still any cigarette papers in the house--yes, used solely for tobacco) also a rubbing.  Thanks.  Pat
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slokind
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2009, 06:40:31 pm »

Lacking plaster of Paris, and having bad luck with kitchen aluminum foil (very thin pre-WWII tinfoil separated from its paper backing for wrapping chewing gum, short of gold leaf, is what is wanted), I did what Radoslav Gusteralnikov, during a visit, had taught me.  His were excellent.  Luckily, one packet of roll-your-own papers had survived house cleanings.  I could not find a 6B drawing pencil in my house any more, and a fat 'kindergarten' pencil was not soft enough, but a black Prismacolor pencil was found, surviving decades when I have not ventured into 'creative graphics'.  Very soft graphite sticks (I must get some, if only a Puritan society will still sell cigarette papers) would be best.
Anyhow, here are two Panes with the rather successful Prismacolor.  The half-moon exclusions, of course, are my fingers trying to hold on without anything's slipping.
IT IS SURPRISING; THERE ARE MORE LETTERS!
Not that the ethnic so far is obvious to me, but I must return to scanning a volume I have from Interlibrary Loan, though making rubbings is more fun.  ZOOMING WITH CLICK MAY OR MAY NOT HELP ON THE RUBBINGS, which also are not strictly to scale.
Pat L.
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Steve Minnoch
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2009, 07:33:29 pm »

A bit of a half-arsed guess, but ΛΕΒΕΔIΩΝ?
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slokind
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2009, 07:51:15 pm »

Lebedus in Ionia, whose Imperial coins go down exactly to Geta?  In Ionia, where these two-figure coins are not uncommon?   Even should it prove to be something else, I still say that one Minnochian gluteus is worth both of anybody else's.  I bet anything it's right.  I do have BMC Ionia at home, I think (Lindgren doesn't have a big one)...no, but I can go to the Library if no one else has it.  Not in RIC.  In fact, I'd never heard of Lebedus, though I've been to Lebedaia in Boeotia twice.  I'll see if Beamtennamen has a name for Lebedus.
Pat L.
Beamtennamen yields "epi str[ Greek_Pi Greek_Iota Greek_Omicron Greek_Delta Greek_Iota Greek_Lambda]? Erasistratou for Geta.
HN mentions Athena and Isis among the deities on Imperial issues.  Refers to Sabina's Imh-B Kl M p. 74, 15
Nothing of this size.
Goodness, the Hellenistic silver is beautiful (that is, of course, all that CA has; WW has nothing).
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gordian_guy
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 08:50:37 pm »


I would bet Lebedus - very rare coin. cf Ih-B Griechische Munzen Plate VIII 28 (page 118 #301 - with similar Obverse inscription - can't tell if same dies) for an Athena in the type depicted on your coin -  maybe a Zeus or Dionysos standing next to Athena.

c.rhodes
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slokind
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2009, 09:13:01 pm »

Yes, I'm just waiting for the molasses-in-January page and plate to print out of the .pdf of Imh-Bl's Griechische MŁnzen.  Then I'll scan them as .jpg (cropping the entry and the coin) and post them here.
I couldn't miss the Athena with the shield in front of her legs (so unlike what I know) and the SEPTIMIOS spelled out.  This is the coin that Beamtennamen cited.  Yes, my coin must be exceedingly rare, but I'd rather, since it is interesting, that it was a couple of grades higher in preservation and merely somewhat scarce.  I mean, Berlin has the one Imh-B listed (and MŁnsterberg cited from him).  I wish mine weren't possibly unique.  I think the graceful deity at right might be Isis; the one at left is certifiedly Athena, and the obverse die is all but certainly the same as on the Berlin coin, Taf. VIII, 28 for its reverse.
I say: this unidentified coin has been worth every small penny for all of us!  I am so glad that I got it.  I love big bronzes, and Geta as Augustus in Asia Minor is always worth going for.  This is fun.  I couldn't afford a Lebedos silver coin.
I'll post the illustrations, such as they are, when I get them.  I don't know how to paste a bit of .pdf directly into one of these windows.
Pat L.
I think the 'unbestimmte Attribut' on Athena's hand, judging from my coin, may be a Nike, which accords well with the triple plumes on her helmet, cited on the Berlin coin, which means they're thinking of something Parthenos-like.

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bpmurphy
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 09:44:43 pm »

Lebedus is correct, the exergue clearly reads LEBEDIWN.

Lebedus struck down to at least Elagabalus' time.

The obverse die is the same as Kraft pl. 63, 18 and it reads P CEPTIMIOC GETAC AYT but the Kraft coin has a different reverse type.

Barry Murphy
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2009, 11:06:15 pm »

Isn't attribution fun!
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2009, 11:09:57 pm »

The coin shown by Pat is the same as the Kraft specimen.

Barry
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curtislclay
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2009, 03:01:04 pm »

To clarify, Kraft illustrates the same Berlin specimen that Imhoof-Blumer illustrates, but he illustrates the obv. too, showing that it is from the same obv. die as Pat's coin.

The rev., as shown above by Pat's scan of Imhoof-Blumer, is different, depicting only the frontal Athena, not the second deity too.
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Curtis Clay
slokind
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009, 12:13:20 am »

Thank you, Curtis.  I suspected that such was the case, but, as I wrote to Charley, I can't believe mine is unique, since there must be so many worn coins unpublished.  I actually located and ordered a copy of Kraft, considering that I am working on some other Asia Minor two-figure reverses, on exactly the grounds that Ann Johnston gave: it cannot be ignored, whether one agrees with everything he says or not.  Istambuler Mitteilungen, all those maps and all those plates, and it isn't .pdf. and it is over 200 pages of text.
Pat
P.S. Not actually 'Mitteilungen'.
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slokind
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 06:51:24 pm »

I don't have Kraft yet, but here's another Lebedos, this one with Athena alone, though not from the same die as Geta's, above, and it is the same noteworthy Athena.
The obverse isn't as nice as the Geta, either, but the reverse is much easier to read.
Lebedos (Ionia).  ∆28.5, 10.95g, axis ~6h.  Julia Domna, bust to r., with mature hair-style that might be contemporary with the Geta as a new AugustusRev., Athena, frontal with both arms extended, in her r. hand a spear, at her feet a shield (frontal).  The dealer supplies all the usual "--;" for the places you'd expect to find it, except Imhoof-B., but Kleinasiatische MŁnzen doesn't list hers, either.
Pat L.
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