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Offline Bacchus

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The adventures of Herakles thread
« on: May 13, 2008, 03:09:27 am »
Hi,

I have a matching pair of Macrinus and Diadumenian, Herakles and the Hydra reverse type - which is an interesting scarce (ish) die.

Please add any of yours you find particually interesting.

What is curious here is the weak part of the striking is at the bottom lright for both coins - yet the Diadumenian one is aligned with 0 degrees between both dies, while the Macrinus one is aligned at 180 degreesDie alignment is not really discussed much with these provisionals - they tend to be all over the place - but here it may tell a story.

The roughness is likely due to the condition of the die rather than how well the strike was made (allowances must always be made for the general degradation of contidion). 

It is an interesting type though I have never seen one in a really good condition so perhaps here the die just didn't "take" or degraded very quickly, yet the mint still wanted to use it.


Malcolm

1.
Province  Moesia Inferior
City  Nicopolis ad Istrum
Size (mm)  28
Weight (g)  11.32
Die Axis  180
Tariff  4 assaria
Governor  Statius Longinus
Ob. LegAVT K M OPPELLIOC CEV MAKPINOC
Ob. Desc.  Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev. Leg.  VP CTA LONGINOV NIKOÐOLITWN PROC ICT
Rev. Desc.  Herakles naked, left, attacking a Hydra with his club
References; AMNG 1760; Varbanov (Eng.) Vol1. No. 3480; Moushmov 1290;

1.
Province  Moesia Inferior
City  Nicopolis ad Istrum
Size (mm)  27
Weight (g)  12.74
Die Axis  0o
Tariff  4 assaria
Governor  Statius Longinus
Ob. Leg.  M OPELLI DIADOV-MENIANOC KAI
Ob. Desc.  Bare headed, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev. Leg.  VP CTA LONGINOV NIKOÐOLITWN PROC ICT
Rev. Desc.  Herakles standing left grasping the Hydra with his left hand and preparing to strike it with club which he holds over his shoulder
References; Varbanov (Eng.) Vol.1. No. 3731; AMNG I 1858 p. 470;

Offline slokind

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 03:32:41 am »
What a great die match, for a Macrinus die that is surprisingly scarce.  It is my MBf and the Hydra reverse is all I have for it: R17iii.  But I do have another Herakles, one of the Lysppic ones, with your Diadumenian die, my DBe, R17ii.
That Diadumenian obverse seems to have seen a lot of use, and its superficial appearance varies with wear on die as well as specimen.  Your new one is nice.  Yes, getting a match on the Hydra die is a real scoop!
Pat L.

Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 04:28:40 am »
I have never seen this reverse paired with a Macrinus obverse.  I have a die match to your Diadumenian coin, but not much would be gained by posting it since you have supplied the readings of the legends (which mine could only confirm as they are readable throughout); it is a little less rough, but my scanner is only suitable for printed material and could not do it  justice.  Are you limiting this thread to Herakles' labors as found on coins of Diadumenian and dad at Nicopolis ad I, or to the labors elsewhere and more generally?  George S.
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Offline Bacchus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 05:26:42 am »
Hi George,

I was hoping for interesting Herakles from any city or ruler

many thanks

Malcolm

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2008, 05:37:57 am »
Compared to your forceful Herakles scene, this rather is a boring reverse, but let me post it nontheless since I just (finally) had it professionally photographed.

Elagabal AE41, 218-222 AD, Philippopolis, Thrace.
Obv: AVT K M AVPHΛ ANTΩNEINOC CEB, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right, wearing aegis with snakes on left shoulder.
Rev: MHTPOΠOΛEΩC ΦIΛIΠΠOΠOΛEΩC NEΩ / KOPOY, Herakles standing left holding club resting on ground in right hand, lion skin draped over left arm, holding hesperide apples.
38-41 mm, 33.07 g
Mionnet 358 (R6, 120 Fr.), R. Stoll, Herakles auf Römischen Münzen, no. 131 (this coin)

One of my earliest provincials - I confess that back then, it mainly was the size that attracted me (that has changed by now).

Lars
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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2008, 06:41:19 am »
I think this was the first work of Herakles: Strangling the snakes!

Thracia, Serdika, Caracalla AD 198-217
AE 19, 3.52g
struck AD 207-217
obv. AVT KM AV CEV ANTWNINOC
bust, laureate, r.
rev. CERDWN
Infant Herakles, chubby, kneeling r., r. hand raised, with l. hand resting on
ground, strangling two snakes entwining his arms
Ruzicka 391; Varbanov 153 var. (diff. obv. legend); Hristova/Jekov 12.18.14.14
Rare, about VF, oliv-green patina

This coin obviously resembles a motiv of a series of rare tetradrachms which were struck 405/4 BC to celebrate an alliance (synmachikon) of some cities of Western Asia Minor. Karwiese, NC 1980, has made a good case for it having taken place, when the cities threw off Athenian domination with the help of the Spartan Lysander. Lysander then was celebrated as Herakliskos Drakonopnigon, 'Herakles the snake-strangler'.

For more information please look at the thread 'Coins of mythological interest'

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Offline Jochen

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2008, 06:53:54 am »
And here is big coin too with a depiction of one of Herakles' work:

Cilicia, Tarsos, Gordian III, AD 238-244
AE 35
obv. AVT KAI M ANT GOR[DIANOC CEB]
Bust, draped and cuirassed, seen from behind, radiate, r.
in field l. and r. P - P
rev. TARCOV MHTROPOLEW
Herakles, bearded(?), nude, stg. facing, head l., resting with r. hand on his club, holding
over l. arm the lion-skin and in the outstretched l. hand five apples.; l. beside him a tree
with twigs, entwined by a nake.
in the upper r. field A / G, in the lower l. field M / K
Ref.: cf. SNG Copenhagen 383
very rare, good F/about VF, traces of ancient smoothing process on rev. The coin is in the usual rough state like most coins of Tarsos.

For more information please look at the thread 'Mythological interesting coins'!

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Offline Bacchus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2008, 07:14:52 am »
I'll keep the ball rolling with this one from Marcianopolis

The depiction of Herakles is unusual in that it is neither showing a labour nor does he have a very prominant lionskin (a common attribute), though there is one there, it is almost just like ordinary drapery - but again I have to allow for wear so it may just be this specimen, though it is the best preserved I have seen.  The pose seems to be much less dramatic that the ones that are likely copies of statues - so I am not 100% clear as to why he is being portrayed in such a "tame" manner.


Those two large coins of Lars and Jochen are great depictions -- It is hardly surprising that such an imposing historical figure would grace the reverses of some of the most imposing coins.

Malcolm



Province  Moesia Inferior
City  Markianopolis
Size (mm)  26
Weight (g)  13.02
Die Axis  0
Tariff  5 assaria
Governor  P. Fu. Pontianus
Ob. LegAVT K OPEL CEV MAKPEINOC K M OPEL ANTWNEINOC
Ob. Desc.  Laureate head of Macrinus r. facing bare head of Diadumenian l.
Rev. Leg.  VP PONTIANO-V MAPKIANOPO / LEITÙN
Rev. Desc.  Herakles stg. r., nude, hand holding patera, club in l. arm, lion skin draped over the club, E to centre right
References; Ruzicka, Inedita 121, 753a; Price/Trell S. 43, Fig. 70; Lanz, Auction 102, No. 687
 


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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 07:32:06 am »
Here is another Herakles type from tarsos. It shows the fight between Herakles and Antaios (Antaeus) which doesn't belong to the kanon of his twelve classic labours:

Cilicia, Tarsos, Philip I, AD 244-249
AE 37, 19.96g
obv. AVT KAI IOV FILIPPON [EVT] EVC CE
bust, draped and cuirassed, radiate, r.
P-P l. and r. in field
rev. TARCOV THC MHTR[OP]OLEWC
Herakles stg. facing, head l., leaning l., wrestling Antaios; he lifts Antaios up
into the air by the waist while Antaios tries to break his grip;
B to left, A/M/K/G to right
SNG Levante 1153 (same dies); Hunter S.556, 59, pl. LX, 18 (rev. same die); Voegtli 17h
good F, usual roughness

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 07:44:00 am »
Then there are some coins showing Herakles resting from his hard works:

(1) A coin from Marcus Aurelius from Irenopolis in Cilicia:
Cilicia, Irenopolis, Marcus Aurelius AD 161-180
AE 20, 7.84g
obv. AVRHLIOC - KAI[CAR]
head, laureate, r.
rev. IRHNO[POLITWN] - MHTROP (RO ligated)
Herakles, nude, reclining l. on lion-skin, legs crossed, holding knotted club in r.
hand and with l. hand lion's skin of which the legs hanging down; from the
lion's mouth water is flowing.
SNG Levante Supp. 381 (this coin); SNG France 2258. Both don't mentioned the flowing water!
added to www.wildwinds.com
Perhaps the reverse shows Herakles as fountain figure.

(2) A coin of Commodus from Nikopolis, probably unpublished:
Commodus AD 177-192
AE 17, 2.73g
obv. [AVT M]? AVRH - KOMMO[DOC]
bust, laureate, r.
rev. NEIKOPOLI
in ex. PROC I - C / TRON
nude Herakles resting l. on lion-skin, holding club beneath
type unknown for Nikopolis, unpublished
rare, F+/about VF, brown patina or stripped to metal
Reminiscent of the type of Eros reclining r. on lionskin (?), holding torch almost horizontally beneath him, known at Nicopolis for Caracalla Caesar and Julia Domna, AMNG 1468 and 1489, pl. XVI.4. There, however, one of Eros' wings is clearly visible above him. I'm not sure Eros is meant under Commodus too, since the all-important wing isn't visible. (Curtis Clay)
Where did I read that the Caracalla Eros Æ21 (Caesar) is an Eros also known elsewhere where Eros is playing Herakles, and is here sleeping as a very weary Herakles from all his Labors? So both answers may be true, or the wing (given Commodus's die engraver) might just not show. (Pat Lawrence)

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Offline rennrad12020

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 09:33:35 am »
    This is an example of a coin reverse taken from ancient statuary, which while not as dynamic as other depictions of Herakles, has a pathos which is universal.

AE 27 11gr. Septimius Severus Gallus Nikopolis ad Istrum

Ob: AV.K.L.C. CEVHROC P
Laureate head right
Rev: VP AV GALLOV NIKOPOLITWN
Ex: PROCI
Farnese Herakles. Hand behind back, Herakles resting on club, which is on rock, with Lion skin.  Weariness from his labors expressed.


    This is an interesting style, unknown to B. Pick for Septimius Severus (AMNG-).  Varbanov (E) 2698 (double die match).  Cf. 2612 (same obv. & rev. dies as 2698)  In the right hand hidden behind his back is one of the apples of Hesperides

    Named for the statue once in the collection of Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, grandson of Pope Paul III and a great collector of antiquities in the 16th century .  I included his portrait by Titian.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2008, 11:29:29 am »
Here is another depiction showing a resting Herakles. It's from Topiros in Thrace:

Antoninus Pius, AD 138-161
AE 25, 9.05g
struck under magistrate Fabius Agrippinus
obv. [AVT KAI T AIL ADRIANOC] - ANTWNEINOC
head, radiate, r.
rev. EPI FAB AGRIPPEINOV TOPEIREI - TWN
Herakles, nude, std. l. on rocks covered with lion-skin, resting with l. hand on
rock and pointing with r. hand l.; between his knees the club
Ref.: BMC 1; RPC IV (online) 4559 (temp.)
very rare, F+/about VF, deep-brown patina, some roughness
An rather unsual depiction of Herakles!

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Offline slokind

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2008, 12:10:10 pm »
Well, I have about 50 coins with Herakles, but this one may be scarce enough: that wonderful mint, Philippopolis.
• 11 01 02 AE 18  Thrace, PhilippopolisSeptimius Severus, head to r. (whether laureate not preserved)*.  ----]    SEVERO.  Rev., Herakles, unbearded, stg. frontal, head turned to l., r. arm akimbo and also evidently holding his club; on his l. forearm, the infant Telephos who reaches up to his shoulder. [PhI]LIPP    OPOL[ITON].  Almost certainly quotes a Pergamene statuary type, why at Philippopolis quite unknowable.
Pat L.
*P.S. the ties of the missing laurel wreath of course do attest to it.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2008, 12:12:28 pm »
And at least 2 coins which show Herakles with all his attributes: lionskin, club and bow, both from Nikopolis ad Istrum

(1) Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Septimius Severus AD 193-211
AE27, 11.73g
struck under legate Pollenius Auspex
obv. AV KAI CEP CEVHPOC
laureate head right
rev. VPA POL AVCPIKOC NIKOPOLI PROC
Herakles standing right with club, lion skin & bow
AMNG I/1, 1257; Varbanov (engl.) 2784
Rare, VF, added to www.wildwinds.com

(2) Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
AE 27, 12.83g
struck under legate Ovinius Tertullus
obv. AV.K.L.C. - CEVHROC P
Head, laureate, r.
rev. VPA OOVIN TERTVLLOV NIKOPOLIT PROC I
Youthful unbearded Herakles, nude, stg. facing, head r., resting with r. hand
on his club, holding in l. hand his bow and lion-skin over l. arm
Ref.: obv. AMNG 1275, rev. AMNG 1276 (depiction), AMNG 1275 var. (legend);
Varbanov -; Moushmov -
very rare, EF+, superb deep-green patina

Here Herakles seems to be prepared for starting his labors. One of my most beautiful Provincial coins!

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Offline Bacchus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2008, 01:43:00 pm »
The patina on that last coin is astounding -- just the right mix of chemicals to bring out the best.

Malcolm

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2008, 03:59:06 pm »
One hopes devoutly that the "right combination of chemicals" came from the soil...  PL

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2008, 04:59:25 pm »
I think you've opened the floodgates with his one!  Here are two of mine of Severus from that fount of all things Herculean, Sebastopolis-Heracleopolis in Pontus, the first showing the fellow at rest, facing the viewer, as founder of the city, the next in action (with all the panache of a shepherd schlepping a sheep, all business and no drama).  Same obverse dies.  I think the second type was previously only known for Domna, and was the subject of a thread here.

AE28, 12.58g.  Year 208 (205/206).  Waddington 7, BMC-; SNG Cop.-; SNG von Aulock-
AV KAI L CE_PTICEOVHPOC

CEBACTOPOLIS_TWN KTICTHHN, ET_HC in field

AE27, 13.88g.  Year 208 (205/206).  Waddington-; BMC-; SNG Cop.-; SNG von Aulock-
AV KAI L CE_PTICEOUVHPOC

CEBACTOPHP[ligate]AK_LEOP..., HC in right field.
The Erymanthian boar being toted off to be sheared.

George Spradling




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Offline Arminius

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2008, 05:15:16 pm »
A Severus in Sebastopolis-Heracleopolis in Pontus has to be accompanied by his Domna!

Sebastopolis-Heracleopolis in Pontus, Julia Domna,
Æ29 (27-29 mm / 10.47 g), 205-206 AD.,
Obv.: IOYΛIA - ΔOMNA [AV] , draped bust right.
Rev.: CЄBACTOΠ {HP}AK-ΛЄOΠO ЄT / HC (year 208 of the city era = 205-206 AD.), Herakles standing right, nude but for lion's skin billowing out behind from his shoulders, holding Erymanthian Boar in his arms, about to cast it down on Eurystheus who is cowering in a bronze jar partly buried.
BMC 13.38, 1 ; Sear GIC 2343 .

For the fourth labor, Eurystheus ordered Hercules to bring him the Erymanthian boar alive.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2008, 05:19:06 pm »
A Severus in Sebastopolis-Heracleopolis in Pontus has to be accompanied by his Domna!

Especially so since your Domna is from the same reverse die!

Lars
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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2008, 05:19:35 pm »
Just one more (for now).  Sometime Herakles has a cherub (I don't think Nike, based on other examples of this type) on his knee in this composition (as here), sometimes not.  Does anybody know why?

Gordian III, Nicaea.  Weiser, Nicaea-; Waddington 710 (obv.)/700 (rev., same dies though)
AE32, 18.23g

M.A_NT.GOPDIANOC[.?]AV
Draped, cuirassed, radiate bust left, holding spear forward and shield decorated with aegis

NIK_A_I_E/WN
Herakles reclining left on lion right, club under his left arm, extending right to small winged figure on his knee.
Hwaet!
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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2008, 05:30:26 pm »
And a different version of that boar story;

Province  Cilicia
City  Seleuceia ad Calycadnum
Size (mm)  28
Weight (g)  11.23
Die Axis  0
Ob. Leg.  M OP DIADOVMEN[...] ANTWN KAI C
Ob. Desc.  Bare headed and draped bust right
Rev. Leg.  CELEVKEW-N KALVKAD/N/Q
Rev. Desc.  Herakles in short chiton l., leaning on club with right hand and holding slain boar with left hand
References; Gorny & Mosch Giessener M¨¹nzhandlung Auction 117, 14th Oct. 2002, No 404 (same dies)


Malcolm

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2008, 06:03:06 pm »
Hi Wandigeaux!

The small figure is Eros, I think. We have many examples where Herakles is depicted with Eros especially in his leaning position. We find it on vase depictions and reliefs in connection with Dionysos and wine binges. On a mirror Eros is depicted slipping in the role of Herakles who is sleeping drunken.

I think Pat Lawrence is the ideal member for this subject!

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2008, 06:05:59 pm »
Jochen, you will get no argument from me!  Here is one from Deultum (of unknown provenance, possibly yours) without the eros.  George S.
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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 06:36:06 pm »
The small AE below illustrates the numismatic blendings of Herakles and Dionysos.  Also, because I can and I paid for it, an alliance coin from Selge, ostensibly with Sparta (Barclay Head), but perhaps just among the "Lacedaemonian" cities of Pisidia.  Anyone with access to that may possible firm up the reading of the legends.  I will now walk the dog.  George S.

Gordian III AE22 Temnos, 4.17g, SNG Tuebingen 635

AKM ANT_GOPDIANOC

THMNEI_TWN
Herakles holding kantharos

Trajan Decius AE32 Selge, 14.71g, SNG Fr. 33,2071 (same dies, I think)

AV KAI TA ME KV TPA DEKION_EVC_CE

SELGEWN_LAKEDAIMONIWN/OMONIA
Athena facing Herakles
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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2008, 07:07:28 pm »
A similar coin from Smyrna showing Herakles with the attribute of Dionysos:

Ionia, Smyrna, Gordian III, AD 238-244
AE 21, 5.69g
(without name of magistrate)
obv. A KM ANT - GORDIANOC
Bust, draped and cuirassed, laureate, r.
rev. CMVRNAIWN.G - NEWKORWN
Herakles, nude, stg. frontal, head l., holding club and lion-skin in l. arm, pouring from kantharos with r. hand
SNG von Aulock 2230; SNG München 3244; SNG Copenhagen 1397 (rev.); BMC Ionia, 445
rare, about VF/VF, oliv-green patina

And a coin depicting a fight of Herakles with Dionysos:
Syria, Laodikeia ad Mare, Elagabal, AD 218-222
AE 19, 4.60g
obv. IMP CM AVR.ANTONINUS
Head, radiate, r.
rev. LA[V]D[ICEWN]
Naked bearded Herakles, club behind, wrangling with naked youthful
Dionysos, with ivy wreath, [thyrsos behind]
in ex. DE
BMC 105; SNG Copenhagen 372-273
good F, red-brown patina

These male figures indicate certain certamina or public sports celebrated at Laodicea. On such occasions the competitors for the prize were stripped of clothing and annointed with oil and wax. They contended together with mutual grappling and liftingn whilst each endeavoured to give the other "a flooring." Hercules was, according to Pausanias, the reputed institutor of the olympic games. There are colonial medals of Caracalla which inform us that the certamina olympia were performed at Tyre; and this coin shows the probability of the same contests having been celebrated at Laodicea. (Stevenson, Dictionary of Roman Coins)

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