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Author Topic: Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia  (Read 123022 times)

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Offline Jochen

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2008, 02:20:22 pm »
A new coin from Nikaia without any references:

Bithynia, Nikaia, Severus Alexander, AD 222-235
AE 20, 5.1g
obv. [M A]VR [CEV] ALEZANDROC [AV]
       Head, laureate, r.
rev. NIKA - IEWN
       Bundle of 5 wheat ears tied together
ref.: ???

It would be nice if anyone could give me a reference.

Best regards

Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2008, 03:59:11 pm »
Thanks all for the largesse of new / unlisted coins from Nicaea!  The radiate Gordian / Demeter is most likely the same type as RG 486.694 (not pictured; one specimen, sale record); the lion bounding r with bucranium is listed for Sev. Al., Maximinus I, and Maximus *, though indeed not for Gordian III; though the others you mention do have this reverse, Gordian III with Sagaris is also not listed; I think that your Gordian / Seated goddess may be the same type as the Isegrim entries from SLG KOELN UNI I 070 / 071; meanwhile, Jochen's Sev. Alex. with bundle of wheat-ears is definitely unlisted, in Isegrim at least, though it does list a similar type for Vespasian, RG 404.49 (not pictured; full entry at http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3011.htm).  Again thanks for these useful additions!

Sev Alex / Lion
MC CLEAN 7495(1)
VGL: WADD RG S476,612
Maximinus I / Lion
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3089.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3198.html
SLG MC CLEAN 7499 SNG v. Aulock 638
Maximus / Lion
SNG v. Aulock 652
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Offline gordian_guy

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2008, 06:38:42 pm »


Thank you archivum, I overlooked the entry for RG 612 for the leaping lion. I checked the McClean entry and indeed the type is illustrated and attested for Nicaea, which is useful. Nicaea, in fact most of the cities of Pontos, could stand a newer more complete reference work. It is a region dying for someone with access to large collections to catalog. RG, while a very useful reference and currently and seemingly the only major reference on the region, falls way short of works like AMNG. The lack of detail, typical of many of the early French references, is a real detriment. But, we go with it because it is the only game out there. Judging by the number of standards types for Gordian just trying to get a handle on that type alone would be a daunting challenge, never mind the challenge of trying to tackle the more varied types. Hopefully, archivum will put this up on his site at some point when he thinks it far enough along. The photos of the types alone are worth it even if they are already cataloged in RG - which does not illustrate every coin.

c.rhodes

Offline Jochen

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2008, 05:22:49 pm »
I know that this coin is not unlisted but I want to post it here because of its historical relevance.

Bithynia, Nikaia, Domitian, AD 81-96
AE 26, 8.54g
obv. AYT DOMITIANOS KAISAR SEBA GER
      Bust, laureate, r.
rev. TON KTISTH NEIKAIEIS PRWTOI THS EPARX
      Head of Herakles, bearded, laureate, l.
RPC 239; BMC 20
rare, VF, deep green patina

The metropolis of Bithynia was in fact Nicomedia but Nicaea raises a claim upon that title as is shown by a coin issued under Domitian with the legend "the Nikaians, the first of the eparchias". From this claim emerged a legal dispute which finally was decided by Valens in that way, that Nicaea and Nicomedia both were allowed to call themselves the first city of Bithynia but that only Nicomedia should bear the title Metropolis. But this vain title was useless for Nicaea: During the new arrangement of the provinces Chalcedon became the metropolis of the anterior Pontus. It's known a discourse from Dion of Prusa - who lived in the time of Domitian - in which he challenged the Nicomedians to hold peace with the Nicaeans.
This coin was discribed already by S. Morell in "Numi imp., T.3, Numi Domitiani ex aere, tab.21.N.21", and by Mionnet II.451.N.216
(Samson/Schoell, Geschichte der griechischen Literatur, 1831) 

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Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2008, 09:04:03 am »

Very interesting, Jochen (is that another ivy garland -- see above!); certainly a historic type of unusual merit; thanks for posting! 

archivum
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Offline Arminius

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2008, 04:24:18 am »
Caracalla or Elagabalus (?), 218-222 AD.,
Æ Assarion (21-22 mm / 4,25 g),
Obv.: M AY[P AN]TΩ - NINOC AYΓ , laureate bust of Caracalla/Elagabalus right, slight drapery on far shoulder.
Rev.: NIKA[I - EΩN] , elephant with rider left, rider holding staff over elephant´s head.
Rec. Gen. II, - ; SNG Cop. - ; SNG von Aulock - ; Weiser (Cologne coll.) - .

I found another coin of this type: http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=24582&AucID=26&Lot=594 .
(looks like same dies)

regards

Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2008, 08:42:21 am »

Thanks for posting, Arminius; a remarkable type, which I agree is as likely to be Caracalla and not Elagabalus.  (There's an unlisted Sev. Alexander as well, but its right-facing elephant lacks the mahout: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=36332.msg230509#msg230509.) The Coinarchives entry refers us to RG 564 (with a right-facing elephant and mahout; see Reply #35), but RG doesn't show the obverse; the RG specimen's larger, as well, so I doubt that that issue has very much bearing on yours.  Anyway, quite a noteworthy coin, worth examining alongside the scan in C.A.:
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2008, 09:25:16 am »
Another apparently unlisted for the thread:

Caracalla
Bithynia, Nicaea
AE16 (2.5g)
Obv: ANTΩΝΙΝΟCΑVΓ - Bust right
Rev: NIKAIEΩN - Lit altar with garland

Joe W.


Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2008, 10:53:05 am »
Again well-spotted, Joe; we have the radiate-laureate obverse (Reply #19, also unpublished), but not the straight laureate type.*  Thanks for posting!  archivum

   * RG 454.443 pictures this reverse for Caracalla but then misdescribes it as a cista:

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3061.html / http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3193.html.
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Offline Arminius

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2008, 11:26:33 am »
Another Nicaean elephant with mahout - but to right.

This time i´m quite shure the obverse shows Elagabalus with his froggy features:

Elagabalus (?), 218-222 AD.,
Æ Assarion (22-23 mm / 4,46 g),
Obv.: M AYP ANTΩNI[NOC AYΓ or similar] , laureate bust of Elagabalus right.
Rev.: NI-KA - IEΩN , elephant with mahout right, mahout holding staff over elephant´s head.
Rec. Gen. II, - ; Weiser (Cologne coll.) - .

A.

Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2008, 11:38:36 am »
Thanks Arminius; another great find; I am reasonably sure this must be the same type that RG does include (RG 564, pl. lxxxi.32) without bothering to show the obverse for us:

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3077.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3196.html
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Offline Arminius

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2008, 01:08:28 pm »
Archivum, you are right. It´s Rec. Gen. 564.

Thanks !

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2008, 02:13:02 pm »
Here is another...I have found similar coins listed for Septimius Severus, Elagabalus & Geta, but never Caracalla:

Caracalla
AE15 (2,1g)
Nicaea
Obv: ANTΩNINOCAVΓ - Bust right
Rev: NIKAIEΩN - Eagle standing right; head left with wreath in beak

I have 2 specimens pictured below

Joe W.


Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2008, 04:48:01 pm »
Thanks, Joe.  I linked us to your previous posting for this coin in Isegrim Extended but not in Nicaean Addenda, where it also clearly belongs:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=28997

Isegrim Extended:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=49390.msg307614#msg307614
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2008, 09:29:41 pm »
Last one today...a nice left facing bull....

Geta
AE15 (2.4g)
Obv: ACEPTIΓETAC - Bust right
Rev: NIKAIEΩΝ - Bull standing left

Joe W.


Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2008, 09:54:00 pm »
-- Interesting!  There are bulls standing right for Septimius Severus, Julia Domna, and Caracalla, but no left-standing bulls referenced for any of them.  I think that that legend starts out :Greek_Pi::Csquare::Greek_epsilon::Greek_Pi::Greek_Tau:, but it's Geta alright.  Thanks for posting!  archivum
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2008, 11:52:31 pm »
-- Interesting!  There are bulls standing right for Septimius Severus, Julia Domna, and Caracalla, but no left-standing bulls referenced for any of them.  I think that legend starts out :Greek_Pi_3::Csquare::Greek_epsilon::Greek_Pi::Greek_Tau:, but it's Geta alright.  Thanks for posting!  archivum

Pulled the coin for a second look and I can confirm that the first letter of the obverse legend is clearly triangular with a point at the top...either an alpha or lambda...I'd say about an 80 degree angle between the two sides of the letter (not a 90 degree angle as one might expect from a partial "pi"). If it was intended to be "pi" then the entire left side is missing on an otherwise sharp and lightly worn area of the legend. The left side of the letter is slightly longer than the right side, and I can see why it might suggest a "pi" in the picture. In hand you can see that the base of the portrait neck is nearly touching the left "leg" of the first letter...absolutely no room to put another leg down to make an alpha into a pi. Below is a scan of a similar Geta coin with the same legend and a lambda with a sharper angle.


Joe W.


Offline Steve Minnoch

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2008, 12:08:19 am »
In which case it should be a Λ.

Geta's praenomen changed, he is known as Lucius on (I think) his earliest coins, but later he was renamed Publius.

Steve

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2008, 12:13:50 am »
In which case it should be a Λ.

Geta's praenomen changed, he is known as Lucius on (I think) his earliest coins, but later he was renamed Publius.

Steve

Thanks, Steve...lambda it is...

Joe W.


Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2008, 12:26:57 am »
The inscription on the obverse is Geta clear as day, but somehow the reverse has morphed into one of Marcianopolis?  Where is the bull, and what have I missed?  George Spradling
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Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2008, 08:23:31 am »
Hello George; you're quite right, that is definitely no bull. Joe was just posting the Markianopolis coin as an extra example of the variant obverse legend for Geta; the main coin in question (Nicaea) is back in Reply #39.  But bull or not, we're still on-topic.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2008, 10:47:05 am »
Here is the first apparently unlisted Nicaean coin for consideration today:

Severus Alexander
AE23 (4.8g)
Obv: ΜΑVΡCΕVΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟCK - Bust right
Rev: ΝIK-A-I-EΩΝ - Hexastyle temple facing

There are some "near misses" for Severus Alexander in ISEGRIM which are noted below along with the differences when compared to my specimen.

ISEGRIM (42985) - RG, p.472, 579 (Pl. XXXII, #9)
AE21
Hexastyle temple with figure within, 3 columns to either side
Legend in exergue

ISEGRIM (42986) - RG, p.476, 614
AE25
Radiate bust

ISEGRIM (42987) - RG, p.476, 613
AE27, AE22-25
All types have legend in the exergue

ISEGRIM (43226) - SNG FITZW 4115
No crescent within the temple

The closest match for this reverse I can find is an issue of Elagabalus (RG , S. 470, 566v )

Joe W.




Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2008, 11:32:37 am »
Interesting that the reverse-description of RG 472.579 closely matches your coin, but the picture does not (pl. lxxxii.9):
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3079.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3197.html
It's quite possible that RG conflated two entries; glad that you posted yours to point up the confusion in RG.  A quick visit to SNG UK indicates that SNG Fitzw 4115 has the crescent where yours doesn't; a strange variant, and also worth highlighting.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2008, 04:06:39 pm »
Here is an interesting Nicaean Telesphorus issue. I know RG has similar issues for Ant. Pius, Marcus Aurelius, Commodus, Sept. Severus & Geta but I have been unable to find any such issue for Julia Domna.

Julia Domna
AE16 (3.9g)
Obv: IOVΛΙΑCΕΒΑCΤΗ - Bust right
Rev: NIKA-IEΩΝ - Telesphorus standing facing

Joe W.




Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2008, 05:28:13 pm »
-- More support for the notion that virtually all of these smaller Nicaean reverses were used for all  members of Septimius Severus' family circle, even if we have yet to find specimens for more than a few; thanks for filling in more of the blanks, Joe!
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