Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: A decent legionary series Sept, Sev. from Emesa  (Read 11459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline curtislclay

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 11155
Re: A decent legionary series Sept. Sev. from Emesa
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 10:29:57 pm »
A note on the capricorns: they were the emblem of the Fourteenth Legion so only belonged on its standards.

At Rome, the standards of LEG XIIII generally have the capricorns, while those of all other legions generally don't.  However, there were mistakes in both directions: occasionally the standards of XIIII omit the capricorns, and quite a few of the other legions also have one or two rev. dies where their standards are wrongly ornamented with capricorns.

Doug,

I already explained above that yes, many legions apart from XIIII occasionally get capricorns on their standards at Rome, by error in my opinion, because according to other sources the capricorn WAS the emblem of XIIII, but was NOT the emblem of those other legions, and because in general the emblems of the various legions were not added to their standards in Septimius' legionary series, the sole exception being the capricorn for his favorite legion, XIIII.

III ITAL is one of the legions that sometimes gets capricorns at Rome, so yes, it is possible that Alexandria copied one of these Roman coins with capricorns for its own legionary type, blundering the Roman legend LEG III ITAL to LEG III ITAVI or ITAVG. 

The difficulties with this theory are (a) why the misspelling of ITAL, (b) why should Alexandria select this legion instead of the emperor's favorite, XIIII?  Just rote copying of the first Rome-mint denarius that the Alexandrian mint saw, with no understanding of the background and importance of the type?

I have no idea how to explain the difference between ITAVI and ITAVG on the Alexandrian denarii, though yes I am inclined to suspect ignorance and error.  How do you explain this variation?


Curtis Clay

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: A decent legionary series Sept, Sev. from Emesa
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 11:59:57 pm »
Was not the closest Severus supporting Legion to Alexandria was III Augusta in Numidia?  I know nothing about III Italica  since it is not discussed in Birley (save on one map) or the Cambridge Ancient History.  While the two legions were different (and not the only ones with numeral III), I assumed the copy was intentional since the number was correct.  Certainly it could have been a conveniently appropriate random selection if you are inclined to dismiss the matter in that manner.

I read AVI as an abbreviation for Augusti by the very non-Latin cutter.  Again it could be an accident but it almost seems odd that these accidents were repeated on multiple dies and there are no other accidents in the legends.

Offline curtislclay

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 11155
Re: A decent legionary series Sept. Sev. from Emesa
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2007, 02:33:48 am »
Possibly the legionary denarii of Alexandria commemorate the Legio III Augusta of Lambaesis in Africa, detachments of which may have been sent through Tripolitania and Cyrenaica to secure Egypt for Septimius.  Then the capricorns on the standards could be intentional and correct, since that legion was founded by Octavian and the capricorn, Augustus' zodiac sign, is attested as one of its emblems.

The legend on these coins, LEG III IT AVI or LEG III IT AVG, is enigmatic.  The AV or AVG could make it the Third Augustan Legion, but what is the meaning of the intruding IT?

Apparently you are returning to my earlier suggestion that the Alexandrian type commemorates Legio III Augusta of Lambaesis! 

But you think you can explain the IT in the legend too, by postulating that though Legio III Augusta was meant, the mint copied the Roman LEG III ITAL type and took over the IT from there!

That's too much for me; I'd rather just admit that we don't know how to explain the type!
Curtis Clay

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity