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Author Topic: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again  (Read 12576 times)

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Offline GMoneti

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2007, 11:51:34 pm »
I think a lot of you are looking at the concept of "government" from the Western European/US point of view and are wondering why  these people in the Balkans, Cyprus or wherever can't figure it out that a system like the British one is a better one.  Well, they can, they just don't want to do it.  Sadly, people who care about national heritage are few in the top levels of government or don't have direct powers (the Bulgarian president has a degree in history and shows interest in preserving antiquities, but Bulgaria is a parliamentary republic and the president does not have too much say at all). 

Point is, it's clear what has to be done, it's not getting done for a reason - there is a strong "lobby" that is slowing the legislative process down.  This "lobby" has an interest in keeping the status quo for their own benefit, as they profit from the antiquities black market.  The other thing is that to implement the British system you need the British budget.  Smaller countries like Bulgaria and Cyprus do not have nearly the same budget to be able to afford paying treasure finders a fair market price.  At the same time, the antiquities found are not fewer (perhaps many more) which certainly creates a financial problem.  After all, the great finds we see from the Balkans and elsewhere in museums and even auctions, are only the surface of what has been found.  The really great objects are indeed in private hands, naturally by wealthy collectors, both at home and abroad.  Top archaeologists admit this as well.  This has been evident recently, as new corrections to the law allowed for private collections in Bulgaria to become legal, thus many extraordinary collections began to surface in public view.  The most notable example - with Bulgaria's accession to the EU at the begining of the month, there was an exhibition of antiquties from Bulgaria in the European Parliament.  Well, this exhibition did not come from one of the large museums as usual, it was the private collection of a well known Bulgarian "entrepreneur".  The words of one of the top archaeologists about this never before seen collection were "I have never seen things like that before".

That said, I don't know if the Cyprus situation is parallel or not, as I have no knowledge about the situation there in that regard.  I know that in Bulgaria a proposition for a rapid change in the antiquities law was accepted by the parliament in 2005, however it still has not passed, although it is expected to pass sometimes soon, but who knows.  I think the British system is a good one and it could reduce the black market (it won't eliminate it), but one has to wonder whether it's applicable to every country, mostly for budgetary reasons.  Prices for the high end objects (VF, EF sestertii for example) on the Bulgarian market are becoming nearly equivalent to prices here in the US.  People want more money for their finds now, due to easier means for sales through the internet and so forth.  There are also more local collectors that compete for these objects with collectors abroad, driving up the price overall.  If the British system is implemented, this means that the government has to pay a pretty high price in order to keep those treasures from going to the black market, something it can't afford on the current cultural budget (which should be increased of course, because it's ridiculously low).  And I am not talking about LRBs, from which there are truck loads in museums and certainly in the ground.  I mean, if antiquties are actually declared, there will be plenty that would classify as being of national heritage importance, believe me.



Georgi

vozmozhno

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2007, 01:25:25 am »
Bump.

So far 463 faxes have been sent. Send yours now: FAX WIZARD [BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Voz


Offline Laomedan

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2007, 03:27:31 pm »
Ok, well I guess I will throw my two cents in the mix. What I want to know is what government are we taking to. Cyprus is still iI a state of civil war. The internationally accepted "Greek" government in the south is making laws that are to be followed by the whole island when they don't even control it. There was an artilce in the Jan/Feb Archaeology Magazine (the AIA's publication, and a very good one) about the problems of conducting field work in Cyrus and who has the right to dig in the north "Turkish" part of the country.  The Republic of Cyprus basically told international archaeologists that those who do work on sites in the north are committing "academic suicide" and that since their government is the only legal one on the island, the sites should be left alone even if they are to be detroyed or looted. A small group of German archaeologists are conducting work in the north with the permission and help of the local ethnic Turkish residents in order to save these sites dispite the warnings from the south. As a studying archaeologist, I salute these brave archaeologists who put their careers on the line for knowledge. As for myself, I can't understand why the government of Cyprus has such a determination to see its history be degraded by nature instead of studied and enjoyed by all. If this country is willing to bring politics into the excavations of these ancient sites by experts, just think of the treatment they will show the coins that they keep. The government in the south needs to stop using these artifacts(and coins!) as weapons against each other and as said in earlier posts adopt a system siminlar to that of the British. Be proud to be from Cyprus, not just a "Greek or Turk".   

Sorry for going on and on, guys. If any of you want to read a copy of the article send me a message. I would post a link to it here but I don't think that copyright laws would allow that, or atleast thats what the end of the article said.

Offline Marsha

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2007, 09:42:06 am »
I have sent my fax and recruited others to do the same...  but am curious as to what this all potentially means to sellers and collectors of ancient coins...

What is the worst case long term scenario?

Marsha

Offline awl

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2007, 10:32:15 am »
The ANA has sent their members an email. 30,000+ potential  :)

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2007, 12:17:09 pm »
The ANA has sent their members an email. 30,000+ potential  :)

remember, the AIA (Archaeological Institute of America) has also sent out an email to its members, so that is a huge number of possible letters in favor of the ban.  We need every member of Forvm to send a fax to couteract this.

Ghengis_Jon

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2007, 12:23:00 pm »
I'm looking forward to the e-mail and an opportunity to respond.  Received nothing as of today.  As a member and subscriber to the mag, I wonder if they've somehow determined I'm an ancient coin collector and purged me from the list!

Offline John the Chess Guy

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2007, 12:26:13 pm »
I'm looking forward to the e-mail and an opportunity to respond.  Received nothing as of today.  As a member and subscriber to the mag, I wonder if they've somehow determined I'm an ancient coin collector and purged me from the list!

I may be mistaken, but I think you have to have an account at the ANA web site, and opt-in (sign up for) to the newsletter to receive this kind of stuff...

John
LM ANA 2342 / LM CSNS 337
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994

Offline awl

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2007, 06:33:34 pm »
I'm looking forward to the e-mail and an opportunity to respond.  Received nothing as of today.  As a member and subscriber to the mag, I wonder if they've somehow determined I'm an ancient coin collector and purged me from the list!

I may be mistaken, but I think you have to have an account at the ANA web site, and opt-in (sign up for) to the newsletter to receive this kind of stuff...

John


bump

I believe he is referring to the AIA.

Offline John the Chess Guy

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2007, 11:13:01 pm »
I'm looking forward to the e-mail and an opportunity to respond.  Received nothing as of today.  As a member and subscriber to the mag, I wonder if they've somehow determined I'm an ancient coin collector and purged me from the list!

I may be mistaken, but I think you have to have an account at the ANA web site, and opt-in (sign up for) to the newsletter to receive this kind of stuff...

John


bump

I believe he is referring to the AIA.

Oops, quite right - sorry. I just associated it with the recent ANA email that went out right before the posting appeared, instead of reading the "I" in there. Thanks for pointing this
out.

John
LM ANA 2342 / LM CSNS 337
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994

Offline awl

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2007, 03:55:52 pm »
Any word on how many faxes were sent?

Offline Marius

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2007, 04:08:14 am »
Plenty of the letters here seem to view the issue as to whether Cyprus should ban the exposrt of antique coins but I don't think that is the issue - lots of countries do that.  What is new here is that the US government was planning to sign on with it, and that would be a horrible precedent.

BTW has anyone heard an update?  I too would love to the know the total numebr of faxes and whether they had an effect.
Richard Marius Beale
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: IMPORTANT: Coin collecting in danger yet again
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2007, 12:43:07 pm »
The total number of faxes sent via the fax wizard was 1069. The numbers sent via the wizard for the current campaign is available via this link:

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

The latest news I've seen is this report from Peter Tompa, president of the ACCG, that was posted to Moneta-L:

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Ben

 

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