Chersonese vs Cherronesos

[mister.Saigon]

Hello,

Can somebody tell me the difference between Chersonese & Cherronesos?
I have two locations:
- one near the Bosphorus, the old KARDIA
- one near Sebastopol, in the Krim.
------------------------------

I have the coin with the forepart of a lion & with a quadripartite... where does it come from? Please give me the modern named town.

Thanks,
Gi.

[pulvinar]

This coin raises alarm bells for some reason...the whole "eye" thing.  Could be wrong but the style is off and the edge splits and surface look new.

Pul

[Dapsul]

Chersonesos and Cherronesos are just dialect variants of the same word. Cherronesos is the assimilated neo-Attic form. It is the same linguistic phenomenon as in the Latin horrere < *horsere.

Frank

[mister.Saigon]

Pul:
I will look for its genuinity... thanks for the remark!!!

Frank:
Can you also situate the place on a worldmap? My books tell me about two different places in the Black Sea area, one in the North of the sea, the other in South-East near Lysimachus in the Dardanelles.

I would like to know where these particular kind of coins come from.

Greetz,
Gi.

[Dapsul]

As far as I know the discussion, this coin comes from the European part of Thrace, not from the Krim.

Regards - Frank

[esnible]

You might enjoy Reid Goldsborough's article on the Cherronesos Lion. [ http://rg.ancients.info/lion/cherronesos.html ].  As Reid points out, Cherronesos is Greek for 'peninsula' and several cities used the name.

Chersonesus (the city) has not been found.  In his article "An Unknown Hybrid Hemidrachm of Parium and Thracian Chersonesus", Draganov writes "... some scholars contest the existence of Chersonesus [he cites papers in German and Russian] although Hekataios unambiguously informs that Chersonesus is 'the neck-city of Thracian Chersonesus'".  He goes on to say "In the numismatic literature ... it is not accurately defined whether the city of Chersonesus is concerned or if the word designates the peninsula of the same name."

Draganov also says "... it is sometimes accepted that the hemidrachms were minted in the main city of Thracian Chersonesus, Cardia..."

Wikipedia gives the location of Cardia as the Gallipoli peninsula at the head of Saros bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardia_%28Thrace%29

The coins were struck either by the peninsula as a league, or by a lost city of the same name on the peninsula, or by Cardia.  Possibly the hemidrachms are not even related to the XEPPO coins any the whole attribution of to Chersonesos is a fantasy.

Barry Murphy has a good page on the coins.  His page doesn't discuss geography.  [ http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/chersonese/Cherronesos.htm ].

[mister.Saigon]

Guys,

Thanks for all this information, it was a big help!!

About its genuine character: I asked a coin-trader his opinion. He told me the coin is real. He cannot find any reason why modern man would make four carves in such a common coin. That is why he thinks it is done in ancient times to leave a personal mark... like graffiti does.

Other opinions are more than welcome!!!

Gi.

[areich]

...
He cannot find any reason why modern man would make four carves in such a common coin. That is why he thinks it is done in ancient times to leave a personal mark... like graffiti does.
...

That alone is a pretty weak argument for authenticity. Does he specialize in Ancient coins?
I'm not an expert, but the lion looks awfully modern to me, cartoonish even. In fact he looks like a raccoon.
I don't remember seeing one like that before.

Andreas

[CANTANATRIX]

The four notches are likely from it haveing been mounted in a peice of jewllery at some stage. As for authenticity-there are a great number of styles for this type, some barbarous in origin as well-so I cannot dismiss the coin simply from style.

The coin may have been polished as well giving it the 'shiny' appearance.

[pulvinar]

Good points.  This is a situation where weight might be informative.  Also, the reverse symbol variants (can't tell what's in the lower right quad) might provide some clue as to a die/style match.  Frankly, the coin still creeps me out a bit...surfaces are odd, lion is very crude, the strange "notches" on the edges, and how convenient that the devices on the reverse are intact with little wear near the edges.

Pul

[mister.Saigon]

Size = 12,45 mm
Weight = 02,26 gr

About the notches... First I also thought about some fixing for a hanger.

Have to admit I took the picture with a little too much light... if this might help! In real the surface isn't that smooth and shining.

[pulvinar]

Well, that weight and size are good for a hemidrachm.  This moves the evidence towards authentic.  I would recommend searching for a die type match for the reverse.  Finding a suitable match would put the matter to rest. 

Someone, I thought, had a webpage set up describing the various reverse die variants in this series...maybe a Google search would be fruitful.

Pul.

[mister.Saigon]

On the site http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/chersonese/Cherronesos.htm ].

you can find a same kind of coin:
... under "Issues with an X"
... there is a reverse described as: "BMC Thrace pg. 186, 51; Weber 2431; McClean 4123"
But: the obverse isn't shown, and I have none of those books in the house.

I will keep on looking on Google :-)