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Author Topic: Earliest Winged Coinage  (Read 13950 times)

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Offline slokind

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2007, 12:26:27 am »
The griffin has a 'dragon' crest, one reason for dating it down in the 5th century, and equine  ears.  I'll find you one with wonderful ears.  Pat
OK, here's a whole case full of early griffins in Berlin, and, Look, you have taught me something.  One at lower r. has a flower thing instead of a knob.  And here's the one in NY MMA (one of its ears is missing).  These range, I guess, from c 650 to c 570, all of them too early to have a dragon crest.
When it comes to creating griffins and all the rest in the Early Archaic, they are having too much creative fun to worry about "purpose", and a distinction between decorative and meaningful has yet to be made.  But mortal women don't wear them, only divinities and 'monsters' in the literal sense of that word.
P.S. Because it is earlier and because it is not susceptible (as a mere snapshot of an object still at its find site) to provenience questions, I am substituting the Delphi griffin for the New York one.

Offline Kopperkid

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2007, 08:50:33 pm »
Quote from: pulvinar on January 11, 2007, 11:14:11 pm
But what is the purpose of the plant-based tendril (with or without lotus)?  Does it confer some sort of status or meaning or was it purely a decorative device of the period?

Pul.

I don't think I can answer you question fully, but looking in the Louvre, you'll find a column capital that depicts a goddess with the scrolling hair and then a "naiskos" on top with more "tendrils" and flowers running up the side. I think it might be safe to say that the coins are reproducing part of this design.

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail_notice.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225222&CURRENT_LLV_NOTICE%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225222&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723696500787&fromDept=false&baseIndex=3&bmUID=1168664591240&bmLocale=en

Regards,
Kopperkid

Offline slokind

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2007, 10:39:40 pm »
Bravo!  That is an excellent example of the kind of thing I had in mind in speaking of Levantine (Phoenician, if you prefer) art ultimately
 based on Egyptian prototypes, such as certain crowns.
Pat L.
Something has gone amiss with the width of the window!

Offline Kopperkid

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2007, 12:07:52 am »
Here's my artistic attempt to outline the fiugre on Weidnauer 175.


Almost forgot one of my personal favorite series:
Caria, Kaunos AR Drachm or Half Stater. Ca 490-470 B.C. Iris with curved wings and outstretched hands in a kneeling-running position right, looking back / Griffin standing left, raising forepaw, within dotted border in quadrilateral incuse.



Offline Kopperkid

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2007, 12:29:13 am »
Hey Pat, what about this?

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/crowns2.htm

Would the triple atef crown have any influence on curley-cues on the coins? I'm thinking like the sphinxes and Kaunos coins???

Offline slokind

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2007, 01:35:26 am »
I think not--not directly.  The early Greeks, as described before, got that repertory from the east Mediterranean region, from Syrians and the ones we call Phoenicians.  Now there is some half-digested Egyptian stuff in Syro-Phoenician art.  I think that, if the Greeks were indebted to Egypt for these, they didn't know so, and probably the Levantine artisans whose work they borrowed from didn't know so themselves: it would be indirect, at several removes from the source.  There's a roomful of this material in the Louvre, but I'm answering here simply because the Reply button is, at the moment, missing from the pages of your thread.  Remember: this borrowing was about a century earlier than the first Greek trading posts in Egypt.
Here's a couple.  I don't have notes on them, but the male figure is from Ras Shamra.
Pat L.
Really, you need to do some serious reading on this kind of trade art.  It's not as if I were up to date on it.

Offline Kopperkid

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2007, 12:01:42 am »
Pat-

I have a bad habit of speaking out loud all the time. I was just throwing out the Egyption crown because I see quite a few with the sprial wire. As for the triple atef as an idea. I was thinking about the Levatine piece capital in the previous post. I thought that the triple atef had the same form as the Levatine capital with the curls going up the side and the idea of lotus flower and idea of the solar child emerging. If you look at the Levatine example, you have someone emerging from a temple. I was thinking temple=lotus, godess exiting the portal= solar child emerging. I just looked that the image again and we even have a winged solar disk above the portal. Once again, just a guy with a big imagination.

I did find this at the Louvre:
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail_notice.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225229&CURRENT_LLV_NOTICE%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225229&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723696500800&baseIndex=4&bmUID=1189221225944&bmLocale=en

I'm gonna keep poking around in there. Thanks for keeping me straight!

Ryan

Offline Kopperkid

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Nice early Pegasos
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2007, 06:38:50 pm »
Here's a nice eary one that HJB has up for auction. Once again, you will need to break open your kids piggy banks to pay for this one!
[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Offline slokind

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Re: Earliest Winged Coinage
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2007, 07:30:23 pm »
Yes, I saw that.  Awesome thing.  If it were a vase-painting I'd date it ca. 600 by the horse's head, but we don't have any such horse heads
on Ionian painted pottery quite so early.  Pat L.

 

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