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Author Topic: Judgement of Ares by Dike  (Read 4358 times)

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Offline gordian_guy

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Judgement of Ares by Dike
« on: July 09, 2006, 06:08:29 pm »

Two coins from Syedra depicting the same scene, the top coin Gordian III, ex Levante collection, and the bottom coin Gallienus. The depiction of Ares being held by Dike on the left and Hermes (holding kerykeion) on the right.

c.rhodes

Offline Jochen

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2006, 06:41:28 pm »
Hi Charles!

Where you do you get such nice coins?

Offline featherz

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 08:46:31 am »
I have one of these as well. Quite interesting coins!



Gallienus --AE31, Syedra (Cilicia). Laureate and draped bust right, to the right IA. Rev.: Judgement of Ares by Dike; she and and Hermes both holding disarmed Ares; in her right hand Ares' sword. SNG Switzerland 434; SNG France 663

Offline whitetd49

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 09:38:27 am »
As the significance of this reverse type was unfamiliar to me, I add this account for those that share my ignorance:

The mythical and cultic binding of Ares has long evoked interest and commentary. Most scholars seek to explain these stories and practices by Ares' supposedly "dishonored" status, and both ancients and moderns have counted Ares among the "Forces of Evil" from which poleis protected themselves by a magical, prophylactic binding of his statue. But this view fails to place Ares' binding within the larger phenomenon of bound cult statues and do not account for the surprisingly complex image of the god in epic and tragedy. A brief exposition of generally neglected evidence will establish that cult statues, including Ares', were not chained to incapacitate their power, but to ensure their continued presence as protective powers. Moreover, for Ares in particular, literary and epigraphic evidence suggests that he was bound to the city as the avenging protector of the city's land and agent of Zeus' daughter Dike.

            The binding of Ares' cult images is not an isolated phenomenon. Several ancient authorities, clearly testify that the images of the gods were bound in an effort keep them tied to their cities. The fifth century sources on this point speak with one voice. Their consistent reference to the binding of "Daidalian" sculptures indicates a practice considered ancient even in the fifth century B.C., and the many mythical bindings of various deities, including Zeus, shows such rituals to be extremely archaic indeed. While it is true that liminal and potentially troublesome deities like Aphrodite, Artemis, and Dionysos account for the lion's share of the explicit evidence for bound cult statues, we should remember that the power of every Greek god was a double-edged sword. Apollo could be the bearer or averter of disease. Demeter could either insure the fertility of crops or drive humans into a frenzy of pre-agricultural cannibalism. The cult of Ares, I would argue, was no different in this respect.

            The complex rationales for Ares' binding appear most clearly in two inscriptions from southern Asia Minor, one from Pamphylian Syedra, and another example from Iconium. In both cases, an oracle bade the cities to create a statue group depicting Ares bound before Hermes and Dike. While the position of Ares as suppliant before an image of Justice could imply a malevolent and hostile relationship between Ares and the city, a closer reading of the inscription tends to undermine this reading. The relationship of Ares and Dike had earlier received considerable elaboration by none other than Aeschylus in his Septem and Oresteia. In these four plays, Ares is constantly and consistently depicted as the träger of cosmic, retributive justice. It is in this capacity that Ares appears alongside Zeus and Athena at the heart of the Athenian Ephebic oath, and similar concerns likely informed Ares' binding at Syedra and Iconium. Ares was bound and placed before Dike so that his violent and retributive energies would not harm the polis. Far from diminishing the god's power, cities sought to focus Ares' potentially destructive energies outward by binding his image to the land and subjecting him to Dike. This is the Ares found alongside Athena on the Shield of Achilles and invoked in the Hymn to Ares as "ally of Themis."

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Offline slokind

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 04:01:47 pm »
But where did that come from?  I want to trace the "fifth-century sources" that say that it was particularly "Daidalian" statues that they bound.  The adjectival formation 'Daidalian' rather than 'Daedalian' or 'Daidalc' suggests an august (viz., 19th-century) writer.  Yes, I tried Google and Numiswiki but came up empty-handed.  Now I'm going to hard-copy HN.
Pat L.
No, not HN; Head still thinks it's Aphrodite, Ares' lover.

Offline whitetd49

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 06:19:47 pm »
Pat is an abstract published on-line by the American Philological Association.  The address is:
http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeeting/05mtg/abstracts/GONZALES.html
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 06:40:18 pm »
Thanks to share this interesting link!

Offline slokind

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 09:59:44 pm »
Indeed!  This time the link worked.  Gordian Guy sent it to me, and I just finished reading, Gonzalez' artlicle in Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies 45 (2005) 261-283, of which G.G. sent me the .pdf file.  I instantly knew, from the persons who had inluenced him at Berkeley, whom he mentioned and thanked, that nothing not worth reading could have got past them.  This new article, "The Oracle and Cult of Ares in Asia Minor" is the sort of scholarship that I wish I'd done, that I can't lay down, and which I most wholeheartedly recommend to the company assembled in this thread (I hope a couple of others, such as Steve Minnoch, notice it, too).  Also, his dissertation was Cults and Sanctuaries of Ares and Enyalios: A Survey of the Literary, Epigraphic, and Archaeological Evidence (diss. Univ. California Berkeley 2004).
Now I'll read everything I can find of his.
Pat L.
P.S.  Having the same alma mater, I made so bold as to write to the author, and I invited him to come look at the coins in this thread and how Whitetd found him for us.

Offline slokind

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2006, 02:47:24 pm »
“Pamphylians of Syedra, who inhabit a rich land of mixed men in shared fields, plant a statue of bloody, man-slaying Ares in the middle of the city and beside (him) perform sacrifices as you bind him with the iron bonds of Hermes, and on the other side let Justice administer the law and judge him; let him resemble a suppliant.  Thus will he become a peaceful deity for you, once he has driven the enemy horde far from your country, and he will give rise to prosperity much prayed for.  And you, at the same time, take great pain, either chasing them or placing them in unbreakable bonds, and do not, out of fear of the pirates, pay their terrible penalty.  For thus will you escape from all degradation.”

Those who wish to read the Greek can find it in Matthew Gonzales' GRBS article, p. 279, mentioned above.  This is Robert’s text of an actual Syedran inscription (see note 62 on p. 279), with very minor restorations required.  Gonzales goes on to assign it to the oracle of Ares mentioned by Herodotus, located perhaps at Termessos, not from the oracle of Apollo at Klaros, as Robert thought.

Gordian Guy suggested posting the oracular inscription itself, and being retired so having free time to keyboard it from the .pdf whose address he gave me, I am doing so.
Pat L.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2006, 03:17:30 pm »
This could be the myth behind the depiction:

Ares slew Halirrhothios, son of Poseidon, for assaulting Ares' daughter, Alcippe. The site where Ares came before the gods for judgement, escorted by Dike (Justice) and the herald Hermes, became the Areopagus (Hill of Ares) in Athens, the location of the Athenian law courts. Ares was absolved of murder.
Apollod. lib. III. c. 13. § 2; Pausan. Attic. c. 21

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Offline slokind

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2006, 04:25:59 pm »
Herodotus is earlier, of course, than Apollodorus or Pausanias.  So is 'Late Hellenistic' given as the date of the embassies of Iconium and Syedra to an oracle 'whose repsonse was later inscribed for public display'.  The article in GRBS is no secondary thing; it is 22 pages long and well documented and refereed before publication.  It is worth reading in full, but I felt justified in posting no more than the primary document (besides the coins!), an actual inscription.  Pat L.
P.S.  Yes, of course, the aetiological myth of Areopagus and the SE Asian primary material do have to do with each other, but the latter relate directly and specifically to the coins.

Offline gordian_guy

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 02:40:16 pm »

This tread dates back over 7 years, but the new year is upon us and I am blissfully doing numismatic research - after a very long hiatus - and this thread came back to me - I have just finished recording - yea - a coin of Syedra - a nice acquisition from this meager past year - depicting Ares - a cult prevalent in this Cilician city - and the Judgement(binding) of Ares came to mind and this nice discussion. To those interested I was able to find the following link to the very nice Gonzales paper that Dr. Lawrence referred to:

 https://web.duke.edu/classics/grbs/FTexts/45/Gonzales.pdf

I have read this paper before - so I am furiously going through my holdings of papers not bound!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR

c.rhodes


Offline Jochen

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2013, 05:09:56 pm »
Sorry, the link doesn't work.

In the meantime I've got this type too:

Cilicia, Syedra, Marcus Aurelius, AD 161-180
AE 30, 14.04g
obv. AVT KAI M A - VR ANTWNINOC
        Bust, draped and cuirassed, laureate, r.
        c/m AK in rectangular incus (Howgego 514) before
rev. C - V - E - DRE / WN
       Ares, helmeted and wearing suit of armour, stg. l. between Dike, in long garment, stg. r., and Hermes, nude, with kerykeion 
       in l. arm and wearing winged boots.
ref. Ziegler, Kilikien, - (rev. same dies like #121 for Lucius Verus)
very rare, about VF/F

There is an article in the Mythology Thread about "The bound Ares" https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=25089.275

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Offline whitetd49

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 06:05:47 pm »
Impressively good memories!  I enjoyed revisiting this thread.  Happy New Year!
If you watch long enough, even a treefrog is interesting.  Umberto Eco
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Offline gordian_guy

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2013, 07:21:12 pm »


Jochen,

My apologies, you are indeed correct, it does not work. I found the paper through google and when you click on it all one gets is a download so the link doesn't come through. Copy the link to google and it should be the first search item. Click on that and the paper should begin to download. Odd!!

c.rhodes

Offline gordian_guy

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Re: Judgement of Ares by Dike
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 08:28:58 am »


I fixed the link to the Gonzales paper if anyone is still interested in reading it. There was some unseen garbage in it which was removable. I think it works now - I hope it works now!!

Thanks

c.rhodes

 

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