Faked Septimius?

[Jochen]

Hi!

I am no expert for fake coins but the beard and the hear look very suspicious to me. I think it is re-cut. And so is the rev. too.

Regards,
Jochen

[curtislclay]

     I think the coin is unquestionably authentic, though on the obverse the head hair above the ear and the beard hair in front of the ear have been re-engraved.
     One can judge the extent of the tooling by comparing other sestertii of Divus Severus with the Pyre reverse, struck from the same obverse die:  BMC pl. 66.7 (overcleaned itself); Stack's Knobloch Sale, May 1980, 904 = Auctiones, June 1978, 789.
     This Emperor on Eagle rev. type is far rarer than the Pyre type that usually appears on the scarce sestertii of Divus Septimius.  The Gorny specimen, despite the tooling,  must be the best preserved of the half dozen or so specimens that I have record of.  
     Without having compared it to other specimens from the same reverse die, I see no obviously tooled and re-engraved details on the reverse of the coin, though I am suspicious of the folds of the emperor's toga and the diagonal lines on the left half of the thunderbolt.
     By a misprint in Cohen 83, which was already present in Cohen's first edition, this very rare sestertius was erroneously valued at a mere 10 francs, while the much commoner Pyre piece,
Cohen 90, got 80 francs!  RIC 490A-B obliviously compounded Cohen's misprint  by rating the Pyre type R3, but Emperor on Eagle type merely R!  Obviously the intended price for Cohen 83 must have been 100 francs, or maybe 120 or 150!

[Jochen]

Dear Curtis!

Your post leaves me disturbed! You say this coin is authentic but re-engraved. I ask what you can do to a coin without changing its authenticy? Why re-engraving doesn't destroy the coin? Or is it depending on the time when the coin was re-engraved? Is the re-engraving  ancient?

Regards,
Jochen

[featherz]

My guess would be that the re-engraving is modern (over a genuine original coin). I would not buy it.  The reverse looks tooled in much the same manner of the obverse, IMO.

[curtislclay]

Jochen,
      Surely you understand that a coin can be perfectly authentic, i.e. struck by the mint of Rome at the time indicated by its types and legends, and UNALTERED in any of its essential details of design and legend, but nevertheless be TOOLED, the original details strengthened and some details even added to supposedly "improve" the condition?  
      Bronze coins in particular are susceptible to such tooling, and every major public coin collection contains dozens of ancient bronzes fitting this description, authentic but tooled.
      Even a coin that has been totally REMADE, e.g. a sestertius of Julia Domna altered to Didia Clara, does not thereby become "inauthentic" in my opinion, it remains an authentic sestertius of Julia Domna which has been altered to Didia Clara by a modern forger!
Yours,
Curtis

[canadian_boy]

That is a very logical approach to the whole area of 'retooling'. It makes a lot of sense to look at it that way. Thank you.

[Joe Sermarini]

Curtis,

Do you believe that most of the tooling we see is old or recent?  I know it was done quite a bit in the past, but do you think it is still being done to a significant extent?  I suspect today most tooling will decrease rather than increase value.  

Joe

[curtislclay]

Joe,
       I believe some tooling is still being done today.  
       Since tooling is just an extension of the proper cleaning of bronze coins which goes on all the time, the opportunity and temptation present themselves frequently!
      A year or two ago on Moneta-L someone pointed out a German seller ALL of whose Roman bronzes were badly tooled and "improved", obviously recent work from a single source.
      Then there are the bronzes of the Bosporan kings, Sear Greek Imp. pp. 536-9.  Most emerging new specimens of these coins seem to be extensively smoothed and tooled, as though they were all passing through the hands of a single major supplier who has not cottoned how to clean bronzes properly!
       I agree with you that tooling ruins a coin and slashes its value to any experienced dealer or collector.  But unfortunately it can fool many beginning or imperceptive collectors!
Curtis

[featherz]

Now is the time to bring up my favorite example, Mr. Tooly.



Needless to say, even the mysterious bosporan tooler and the tooler of the aforementioned septimius denarius could take lessons from this guy..  

Back on topic, I have received several coins that I am positive were recently unearthed in Bulgaria that have light tooling and smoothing, so I think there is quite a bit going on today.

[Joe Sermarini]

Thanks for the update Curtis.  Its too bad tooling is still going on.  The example that started this thread shows that even a talented tooler isn't actually going to improve the coin.  It took a lot of skill to do that, but it still looks and is wrong.  I would rather have a worn coin.

[curtislclay]

      I have plaster casts of three other coins from the same reverse die, one heavily worn and the other two not very nice either.  The best, which is a sestertius from my own collection now in BM, is almost Fine on the reverse, though the obverse is deeply pitted and poor.
     Comparison with these casts strongly suggests that almost all of the "fine" detail on the rev. is remade: not only the folds of the emperor's robe and the "coils" of the left half of the thunderbolt as I suspected, but also the feathers of the eagle's body, upper legs, tail, and r. wing.  So featherz, it seems, was right about the feathers!
     The outlines of the rev. type and the letters of the legend are pretty much intact, however.

[Joe Sermarini]

Curtis,

Do you believe that most of the tooling we see is old or recent?  I know it was done quite a bit in the past, but do you think it is still being done to a significant extent?  I suspect today most tooling will decrease rather than increase value. 

Joe

Since I made that post, it has become clear to anyone that follows this discussion board that a large tooling operation had become active.  Many heavily tooled coins are coming to market.  Some of them may not, however, be tooled genuine original coins.  It is possible some or all of the products of this tooling workshop are cast fakes and the tooling is done to cover up the signs of casting.