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Author Topic: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?  (Read 4301 times)

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Offline Jochen

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Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« on: December 26, 2005, 07:46:46 pm »
Hi!

Here is my Christmas gift (but not yet in my hand):

Macrinus and Diadumenian, AD 117-118
AE 26, 9.34g, struck under legate Furius Pontianus
obv. AY K OPEL [SEY?) MAKREINOC KM OPEL ANTWNEINOC K
       confronted busts of Macrinus l. and Diadumenian r.
rev. YP - PONTIANOY MARKIANOPOLEITWN
       Fortuna, draped, sitting l., holding rudder on globe and cornucopiae, wheel under throne,
       shield on throne behind(?)
Pick 775; Moushmov 572
VF/EF, scratches on obv., phantastic details on reverse

My question is: On the throne behind Fortuna I can see a shield. But I have never seen Fortuna with shield! So I'm misinterpreting something?

Please help! Any opinion highly welcome!

Thanks in advance

Best regards

Offline slokind

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2005, 08:48:45 pm »
Dear Jochen, Don't worry!  It is her wheel.  They copied it from Rome denarii and antoniniani.  She is Fortuna Redux = the emperor has come home (we hope is coming home) to Rome, after (presumably) a successPat

Offline whitetd49

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2005, 09:12:40 pm »
Yes, it is FORVNA REDVX but Jochen is not referring to the wheel.  There is an extra object behind the throne (between the normal cornucopia and the E) that does indeed look like a shield.  A quick survey of WW and other web sources confirms that this is an unusual, even anomolous feature.  It is a wonderful Christmas gift, one that I had not seen before, but this may be a case of artistic license!
If you watch long enough, even a treefrog is interesting.  Umberto Eco
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Offline whitetd49

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2005, 09:24:51 pm »
Artistic license redux.  It seems that this reverse is highly stereotyped (surprise!) and a elaboration or fold of the drapery is usually depicted behind the cornucopia.  It seems that the die cutter from Markianopolis chose to depict as or similar to a shield.  Here is a pic:
If you watch long enough, even a treefrog is interesting.  Umberto Eco
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Offline Numerianus

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2005, 10:13:27 pm »
It was hot in Markianopolis and Fortuna (working ) left hung her hat  behind her  :).

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2005, 01:00:05 am »
Couldn't the "shield" just be the usual drapery fold with some deposits on it?
Curtis Clay

Offline Bacchus

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2005, 03:17:39 am »
I remember seeing this one a couple of years ago in a German auction house and admiring the detail on the reverse - congratulations on a nice purchase.  As it is all so ornate on the reverse that I think it may well be just the drapery that has been carved with a bit of extra flair by a talented engravor. 

Nice one!

-:Bacchus:-

Offline Jochen

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2005, 07:50:57 am »
Thanks all for your comments! Sorry, my description seemed to be insufficient! As Whitetd pointed out it was meant the item between cornucopiae and E in r. field. So I will go for a part of her drapery!

Best regards

Offline slokind

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Re: Never seen: Fortuna with shield?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2005, 12:46:39 pm »
I think Whiteted is right.  I never even looked there.  Pick mentions none with a shield there, either.
What I want to say is that you have the best one of these that I ever have seen.  Congrats!
Pat L.
I hope the attached comparison with both shows how confusing these images can be and, by comparison, how beautiful Jochen's Fortuna is.

 

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