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Author Topic: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis  (Read 10920 times)

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Offline Jochen

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Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« on: November 26, 2005, 03:36:19 pm »
Hi!

Here I have a new small coin from Bulgaria which I can't find in the web.
AE 16, 2.74g
obv. AY KL C[EP] - CEYHROC
        bust, laureate, r.
rev.  NIKOPOL - PROC IC / [?]
        Harpokrates, nude, standing l., cornucopiae in l. hand, and r. hand before his mouth

There is no Harpokrates for Nikopolis nor Harpokrates for Septimius Severus in the web. Anyone who could give me any information about this coin?

Best regards

Offline Markus

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2005, 04:31:34 pm »
Varbanov 2522 (engl. ed.) is pretty close:

AE17
As: AV KAI CE CEVHPOC
Rs: NIKO :Greek_Pi: O :Greek_Lambda: IT :Greek_Omega::Greek_Pi: POC IC
Naked Harpocrates std. l., r. hand raised to his shoulder, holding cornucopia in l.

He cites an example in wildwinds, where the respective figure is called Hermes (AE18, 3.28g) reference being made to SNG Cop 265v (which I cannot check).

The shorter reverse legend NIKO :Greek_Pi: O :Greek_Lambda:  :Greek_Pi: POC IC seems to be very scarce for all types (only two entries in Varbanov).

Markus

Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2005, 04:46:24 pm »
Dear Jochen,  A real treasure (I've been looking for one).  It is not in AMNG I, 1 (Pick) for Septimius.  I had six years ago a grubby small Macrinus and eventually identified the figure as Harpocrates (this Alexandrian kind--the Louvre has a relief from Alexandria,and the BMC Alex cat. has several of him there).  Now I have several, but I'll take the opportunity afforded by yours to post a picture here of my newest one.
You give me hope: I may find a Septimius Harpocrates, after all.  Pat L.
The little Pautalia Geta is Ruzicka, Münzen von Pautalia, no. 826, pl. I, 16.
Copenhagen SNG 2, 265, Nicopolis, Septimius is indeed Harpocrates, but a different, less lively reverse die than yours.  P.L.

Offline whitetd49

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2005, 05:18:20 pm »
I have to admit my ignorance, I did not know Harpokrates.  For those that share in my condition:

The name "Horus" is a general catchall for multiple deities, the most famous of whom is Harseisis (Heru-sa-Aset) or Horus-son-of-Isis (sometimes called Horus the Younger) who was conceived after the death of his father, Osiris, and who later avenged him. In all the Horus deities the traits of kingship, sky and solar symbology, and victory reoccur. As the prototype of the earthly king, there were as many Horus gods as there were rulers of Egypt, if not more.

The oldest of the Horus gods is appropriately named Horus the Elder (Heru-ur), and was especially venerated in pre-Dynastic Upper Egypt along with Hathor. In this very ancient form, Horus is also a creator god, the falcon who flew up at the beginning of time. The pre-Pharaohnic rulers of Upper Egypt were considered "shemsu-Heru" or "followers of Horus", and the original Horus is himself considered in some myths to be the brother of Seth and Osiris, second-born of the five children of Geb and Nut (Osiris, Horus, Seth, Isis, Nephthys). Horus the Elder's city was Letopolis, and his eyes were thought to be the sun and moon. When these two heavenly bodies are invisible (as on the night of the new moon) he goes blind and takes the name Mekhenty-er-irty, "He who has no eyes". When he recovers them, he becomes Khenty-irty, "He who has eyes". A warrior-god armed with a sword, Horus could be especially dangerous to those around him in his vision-deprived state, and during one battle in particular he managed to not only knock off the heads of his enemies but of the other deities fighting alongside him, thus plunging the world into immediate confusion that was only relieved when his eyes returned.

Other notable Horus gods are the previously mentioned Harseisis, as well as Horus of Behdet (sometimes called simply Behdety) who was represented as a winged sun disk, Anhur (a form of Horus the Elder and Shu), Horakhety (Ra-Heru-akhety) who was a syncretism of Ra and Horus, and Harpokrates (Heru-pa-khered) or Horus the Child. In the form of Harpokrates, Horus is the danger-beset son of Isis with one finger to his lips, signifying his childish nature (also evident in his princely sidelock and naked status). Harpokrates represented not only the royal heir, but also the newborn sun.

If you watch long enough, even a treefrog is interesting.  Umberto Eco
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Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2005, 06:06:10 pm »
When Julia Domna has a reverse showing Isis nursing a child, it is Harpokrates.  That fits with what you found, of course, and Severan habits of propaganda generally.  But the one Jochen and I are collecting is the Greco-Roman image, a bit different, more naturalistic, without the child's single lock on a shaven headPat L.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 08:47:25 am »
Thanks Whitetd for your excellent investigation in the mythology of Horus!

Thanks all for your contributions. So it is a unpublished coin. What would be of interest: Could the rest of the rev. legend (TPW or similar) found perhaps in the exergue?

Regards

Offline Markus

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2005, 09:38:38 am »
That's pretty improbable looking at the space available (IC and ICT are very frequent abbreviations, as you surely know).

And I didn't know who Harpokrates is either...

Markus

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2005, 10:06:52 am »
Dear Jochen, I presumed to work a little on your pic - I hope I was able to improve it a bit, though I don't know what colours the coin is showing in hand.

Lars
Leu Numismatik
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2006, 03:17:25 pm »
Hi!

Pat has written in replay #2 that she has had a Harpokrates of Macrinus from Nikopolis. Now I got this little coin:

Macrinus AD 217-218
AE 17, 3.14g
obv. AVT KM OPELLI CE - VH MAKRINOC
       Bust, laureate, r.
rev. NIKOPOLIT - WN PROC ICT[..]
       Harpokrates, nude, stg. l., holding clothes and cornucopiae in r. arm and raising r. hand to
       his chin.
Ref. ???

Maybe this is the type of Pat. It is not listed in AMNG and I couldn't find any information at CoinArchives or Wildwinds.

Any information highly appreciated.

Best regards

Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 08:14:54 pm »
That is an excellent specimen from the same pair* of dies as mine.  Mine was in a lot, and it took me years to identify it.  I'll add the picture to this post when I'm on the big computer.  Pat L.
* Not same obverse die, as you see. 
Here's mine.  Grubby; badly scraped.  Bought unidentified.  One of my first coins, and certainly my first Harpokrates; here's where it started: I kept looking for more 'hieratic children'.
28 09 99AE1Nicopolis ad IstrumMacrinus, laureate, head to r.  Rev., infantile but hieratic figurue, rather like Harpokrates but without finger to lip and with bow (?).

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 09:26:30 pm »
 
    Utterly fascinating..!
 
  I’m sorry to say tho’ Pat – I’m not at all sure I understand precisely what you mean by “hieratic figure.
  Do you mean by this, those deities as described in such texts as the Book of the Dead, and/or the Pyramid or Coffin texts?
  Somehow this seems maybe a bit too broadly-inclusive to be what you mean?
 
  Best,
  Tia
 
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Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2006, 11:30:14 pm »
I was being cautious enough not to say 'Egyptian looking'; folks on TV shows are forever calling anything stiff 'Egyptian looking'!  And it was only later that Curtis sent me to BMC Alexandria to see that charming mixture of late Egyptian and Hellenistic that the Greco-Roman Harpokrates display.  But, yes, I did have those rows of stiff figures, as in the Book of the Dead, in mind when I decided to say 'hieratic' to be safe--until such time as I should know why we had childish figures in unchildish poses.
Somewhere, and I'm afraid twice already, I have posted here the votive relief in the Louvre showing the Serapeian holy family plus Dionysos.  If somene knows where, link please, to avoid taking server space for another posting.
Pat L.
N.B. Tia gives the right thread link in her reply, next.

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2006, 11:45:17 pm »
 
  Thanks-much for that clarification Pat.
  That sure helps …
 
   “..why we had childish figures in unchildish poses…

    ..&nd vice versa, too?  Like Ihy – did he have a Greek or Greco-Roman ‘counterpart?’
    ..Or maybe he was Always depicted as a child also ..?
 
    Best, as always -
    Tia
 
 
    P.S.
 
   Is this perhaps the link you wanted Pat?
 
   https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=28509.0
 
   An equally fascinating thread, to be sure …
 
   ~ T.
 
 
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Offline whitetd49

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 12:49:47 pm »
This one is for Pat - another Septimius Severus with Harpokrates from Nicopolis.  The dies are different than Jochen's.  The reverse legend of this specimen matches the example cited in Varbanov (above).

Septimius Severus, AE 17
AV KAI CE CEVHPO
Laureate head, right
NIKOPOLI/T/WN PROC IC
Harpokrates holding hand to lips left, holding cornucopia.
If you watch long enough, even a treefrog is interesting.  Umberto Eco
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2006, 01:34:29 pm »
A very unusual portrait of Septimius Severus! Without the legend I wouldn't have vote for him!

Best regards

Offline Jochen

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2006, 05:45:34 pm »
Hi!

I know this thread is a bit older but today I got a 2nd Macrinus from Nikopolis with Harpokrates on the rev. which I think is a double die match of Pat's one! And you can see that it is the usual pose with the hand before the mouth. And it is no bow he is holding but a cornucopiae and some clothing hanging down from the left arm.

AE 17, 3.8g
obv. AVT K [...] - MAKRINOC
        Bust, laureate, r.
rev. NIKOPOLIT - WN PROC ICTR
       Harpokrates stg. half l., holding cornucopiae in l. arm and r. hand before his mouth
Ref. ???

Best regards

Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2006, 08:21:09 pm »
Much appreciated; that is an excellent specimen of the Macrinus copper from which my interest sprang initially.  Pat L.
Unless it is in the English Varbanov I, THIS THREAD IS ITS REFERENCE.  I assume you checked CoinArchives.  A lot of sellers fail to identify the subject so Wildwinds doesn't work so well.
Above, Tia gives the link to an earlier thread that goes with this one, in part.

Offline Markus

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2006, 01:12:09 am »
Just checked, and it's not in the english Varbanov.

Markus

Offline Arminius

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2006, 05:19:19 pm »
Pat/slokind inspired me to search my collection for a Sep. Severus Harpokrates reverse from Nikopolis. I found another one in my folder called "not listed in AMNG".

Arminius proudly presents another specimen of this rare coin:

Nikopolis ad Istrum in Moesia Inferior, Septimius Severus, AE16 / assarion, 2,72 g., 193-211 AD.
Obv.: '[AY] KΛ C - CEYHPOC , nude bust, laureate, right.
Rev.: NIKOΠOΛ - ΠPO[C IC] , Harpokrates, nude, standing left, cornucopiae in left hand, and right hand before his mouth.

Though both coins are not in EF preservation i think it´s from the same dies as Jochen´s coin.

regards,
A.

Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2006, 07:40:07 pm »
Since the picture was posted twice, I am copy-and-pasting the reply:
I suspect that by the time that the majority of the still unpublished regional collections and private collections are available for counting, say in two generations if the world holds steady that long, collectors (or numismatists, anyway) will no longer be dogged so much by rarityRarity ratings really belong to Cohen's time, but Cohen knew only the auction value of 'collectible' coins.  If a Provençal paysan had a boxful of coins from his land, if a thousand such persons had them, they did not have the expensive publications, they did not have the contacts, they did not have the advanced education to make those coins count statistically; the collecting that 'counted' was a men's club (yes, there were a few ladies) of the well heeled and well connected.  They were the ones that Cohen wrote for--and a few academics, then as always statistically unimportant.  The present state of coin-study is much more broadly based, in every respect; the principal division (it seems to me) is between numismatists (and general Classics persons, like me), on the one hand, and collectors (though many of them very well informed, in some cases extremely expert in their area); the difference is not one of expertise so much as of motivation.  While hardly immune to the charms of beautiful coins, the numismatically motivated person, whether he or she personally collects, or not, cares for what the coins mean in their historical contexts: plural, because there are many sub-contexts: epigraphic, economic, artistic, military, religious, literary, and many more.  The collector, while not uninterested in general Classics, of which ancient Numismatics is part, is typically more interested in completeness as such, condition as such, rarity as such, Coin Cabinet virtues.  The line is not hard and fast, of course, but it crops up here all the time.  And the sellers?  Not myself one of them, I have, nevertheless, the impression that they break down into selling numismatists and selling collectors, just as their buyers do.
This is a simplified statement of something really many-sided, and no one should try to classify himself or herself by it--or suppose that I do.  And neither is 'better' than the other; there are good and bad scholars, serious and frivolous collectors; there are wonderful amateurs, like Ruzicka, and much less than wonderful professionals, like Nameless.  Yet, our Numismatics and Collecting are not those of our great grandparents, either intellectually or socio-economically (polite for Class) or technically (books are cheap and using the internet, so far, is cheaper; digital technology is more important that metal detecting!).
P.S. If someone wants a good Honors thesis topic, let him or her undertake Harpokrates or some such topic, for which the raw material is only emerging.
Pat L.

Offline archivum

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2008, 09:37:08 am »
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2009, 07:40:50 pm »
An old thread but a new coin: another companion for the Harpocrates group.

Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
AE 17
obv. AV KAI CE - CEVHRO(sic!)
        Head, laureate, r.
rev. NIKOPOLI - T - WN PROC IC
       Harpokrates, nude, with lotos-blossom(?) on his head, stg. l., holding cornucopiae in l. arm, with his
       r. hand before his mouth.
ref. a) not in AMNG
       b) Varbanov (engl.) 2522 var.

Varbanov's coin has CEVHROC on the obv., whereas here I couldn't see any traces of the last C. I think it's the same type like whitetd's coin above.

A problem I have with the correct attribution of Harpokrates' headdress. It could be a narrow kalathos. But I have a coin of Geta from Pautalia (Ruzicka writes 'star above head') where it looks more like a lotos-blossom (added).

Best regards

Offline slokind

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2009, 10:19:37 pm »
I, too, see something upright and narrow on the head of your new Septimius Harpokrates, and I suspect that it is a lotus bud.
But the coin is very interesting also in some other respects: the head of Septimius looks pre-Tertullus, and the attitude and stance and proportions of the Harpokrates make it resemble the unusual one for Diadumenian.
I looked at that one to check whether his head-ornament was the same.  Actually, Diadumenian's Harpokrates is bare-headed,**  but the Type of the figure is certainly the same.
** The newer photo shows that Harpokrates on Diadumenian's coin certainly does have a lotus bud headpieceCLICK

• 02 07 04 AE 23  6.61g  axis 12:00  Nicopolis ad IstrumDiadumenian, bust with fringed paludamentum over armor, to r.  K M OPELLI DIADOVMENIANOS.  Rev., Harpokrates stg to l., with crooked r. finger to his lips, holding cornucopiae in his l. arm.  NIKOPOLIT Omega N PROS ISTR.  Not listed by Pick or Varbanov, who list no Harpokrates here.  For the figural type, BMC Alexandria Pl. XVII, nos. 306 (Domitian), 769 (Hadrian)--thanks to Curtis Clay.  But Diadumenian's figure of Harpokrates is larger and more Greek than either of those.  Under a 10X loupe in good light, the green in the r. field is the remains of good patina, not maquillage, but this coin must have been a mess to clean.
Pat L.

P.S. Whitetd's Septimius / Harpokrates of Nicopolis, above, Reply 26 July, seems to be the same issue as the present Septimius.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Unknown Harpokrates from Nikopolis
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2010, 03:54:42 am »
Here's another example of the same die pair as Jochen's last posted coin.  This one is a little more worn and, like Jochen's, has the patina stripped.  That happened when I gave it the anti-bd treatment; a pity to lose any patina, but in its previous condition it was murky and covered with green blobs, so at least it can be seen more clearly now.

I, too,  think the headdress is a lotus bud.  I suppose that's a chlamys dangling from Harpocrates' left arm.

17x18mm, 2.80g.  Hristova/Jekov 8.14.30.2 corr. (same dies as those in the main illustration; obverse legend incorrectly given a terminal C by Hr/J).

Bill
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