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Author Topic: BD Help.  (Read 4715 times)

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Offline lv88

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BD Help.
« on: August 30, 2005, 12:33:25 pm »
Hi Everyone,

I recently bought  coin that seems to be developing BD. I believe it is BD because every night I scraped the green  material on the coin, and every  day, it seems to come back. The photo of the coin is the one the seller gave, so you will not see the bright green deposits. (They are the size of a needlepoint.)

The coin is a small billon 15mm and paper thin.
Could someone help? I am completely clueless, so all help will be appreciated.

Regards,
Levon

PS: The green deposits below the bust are just normal deposits.

AncientCoins

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 03:07:53 pm »
if it is BD, which it probably is if it keeps coming back, i would get a mix of 5 parts baking soda to 8 parts washing soda, some DW, and then u must boil it in it... like i will be doing soon :)  here is the FORVM article with the recipe: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/forvm/Collectors_Resources.html  look for "bronze disease".

andrew

Offline lv88

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2005, 05:29:15 pm »
Ok, here is the process, and I had a few questions about it:

With running water and a stiff nylon brush, scrub the entire surface free of "green fuzz", allow to dry.

Use a magnifying light and a sharp needle to remove and open any obvious green spots still visible. With care these will not be obvious later.

Pre-pare a bath of  5 parts baking soda [sodium bi-carbonate] to 8 parts washing soda [sodium carbonate]. You may go by weight or simple dry measurement, i.e. tablespoons full. Store the mix in an air-tight container.

Is washing soda just regular old laundry detergent powder?

Use de-mineralized or de-chlorinated water for better results.

Where can I get this?


Mix 2 tablespoon of the soda mix to three cups of water; add coins and heat the mix to boiling, reduce heat for a minimum of 5 minutes. Set aside and soaking to continue for an extended period of time. This should be at least 24 to 36 hours, for thick coins like sestertius allow at least 72 hours.  After the initial soak, rinse with clean water and give the coin/s a light scrubbing.

Do I just put 3 cups of water, the mix, and the coin in a pan, boil it, then lower temp, keep stove on for 5 minutes, and then let it soak?

Repeat step 5, twice more.

After the last soak and scrub, dry the coins, and soak in 100% isopropyl alcohol, for about 20 minutes. This will help draw out more water from the coin fabric. Dry thoroughly, and seal with a paste wax, well rubbed into the coin.

Do I have to wax the coin?

It is recommended that all bronze coins be checked periodically, as I have found "clean" coins suddenly break out 2 years after purchase.

While this procedure should not effect a true green patina. It will remove any artificial coloring or re-patination.


Finally, I am extremely worried about damaging the coin. Will this process damage my coin? It is extremely small and thin, and billon, will there be any damage to the silver?


Finally, can  I cut down the soaking limit from 24 hours to 12 because of the coins size? And also repeat this step only once? paper thin and 15mm is an extremely small coin.

Help is appreciated.
Regards,
Levon

AncientCoins

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2005, 07:01:42 pm »
i have some of the same questions as you.  im not sure what washing soda is, exactly...  u can get distilled water( de-mineralized) for about .99 at most stores...  not sure about the 3rd one.  you should wax the coin so it wont break open with BD again....  but since i dont have wax, i probably wont be able to :D.  youre right about being worried, its not supposed to harm patinas, but im not sure about the billon.  u can probably get away with cutting the time down, because with thicker coins, youre supposed to add more time. 

andrew

Offline lv88

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2005, 01:21:35 am »
hmm, could anyone else give any advice?

Mark Farrell

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 10:46:45 am »
Washing soda is not laundry detergent, although that is where it is most commonly located in a grocery store...

Mixing your own stuff is a pain... go with Gringott's # 1. It is simpler, cheap, and formulated (recently) to specifically address bronze disease.

PM sent to you.

Mark

jbaran

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 03:17:10 pm »
Washing soda or soda ash can be found at art supply stores that cater to 'tie dying' or at pool supply stores marketed as "pH up".

http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=2569

bruce61813

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2005, 05:52:02 pm »
Washing Soda, sodium carbonate, is sold with laundry supplies under the ARM & HAMMER "Super Washing Soda" , big box fotr about $1.50 or so.

You do mix everything together [including coins] and bring it to boiling for just a couple of minutes, then just let it sit. The boiling expands air trapped in the small spaces and cracks of the flan, as the coin cools, it draws the solution in. It does help to repeat the boiling about once a day. The time should be changed to allow for the thickness of the flan. Large heavey coins may require soaking for three to four weeks, thin ones like yours - two or three days, but I would change the solution dailey.

Bruce

Offline Istinpolin

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2005, 02:32:54 am »
Hi Levon

If this is a silver coin then take de-make up. You know that stuff women use to remove the make up in their faces. Use some silver polish (best is silver polish by Hagerty). Trust me after couple of uses the coin will look XF. Then, because the coin appears to be shiny. You dont want this affect, then you cut a little slid into a lemon and leave the coin in there for a couple of hours.

This process removes the BD and the lemon kills everything that is left.

Burak

Offline Raymond

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 03:48:32 pm »
Quote from: bruce61813 on November 17, 2005, 05:52:02 pm
Washing Soda, sodium carbonate, is sold with laundry supplies under the ARM & HAMMER "Super Washing Soda" , big box fotr about $1.50 or so.

Bruce

What would the difference in effect on a coin be  between sodium carbonate and Na bicarbonate  - washing soda vs. baking soda?
Raymond
Raymond
(Tetricus is not a game)

Offline slokind

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2008, 07:23:43 pm »
Someone has said, somewhere here, that if you buy both and mix them well in equal parts you'll have the sesquicarbonate.  The latter as such does have to be special ordered, but it's not expensive, either.  If Arm & Hammer vouches for both of their products being unadulterated, the mixture is probably OK, if the assertion just cited is true.  Pat L.

Offline bruce61813

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 12:04:19 am »
Hi Levon

If this is a silver coin then take de-make up. You know that stuff women use to remove the make up in their faces. Use some silver polish (best is silver polish by Hagerty). Trust me after couple of uses the coin will look XF. Then, because the coin appears to be shiny. You dont want this affect, then you cut a little slid into a lemon and leave the coin in there for a couple of hours.

This process removes the BD and the lemon kills everything that is left.

Burak
Bronze Disease does not attack silver coins. That is a chemical fact. If it is a Fouree, then the AE core is subject to attack. Never use lemon juice on bronze, the effect is ugly. You need to soak the coin in order it dissolve the the chlorides that have become embedded in the interstitial spaces of the coin, just treating the surface is like waxing a deep scratch on your car to keep rust away, it is very temporary.

As to mixing the two sodas, they do form sesquicarbonate, they are both cheaper and easier to obtain, so do it the easy way. The results are the same, and 80% less expensive. You do need the soak time, and heating helps, along with changing the solution about every three day. Thick coins, say a sestercius, make require three to four weeks.

Bruce
too many coins - too little time!!

Metrodorus

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Re: BD Help.
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 10:02:28 am »
I thought it was up to a week with coins as thick as a sestertius! :(
What about early Tetrarchic follii?

 

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