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Author Topic: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton  (Read 3261 times)

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Offline explorer

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Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« on: August 24, 2005, 11:00:22 am »
Hi,

This Yehonatan (Alexander) lepton with lily and hebrew "Yehonatan the King" on obverse and anchor and greek "Yehonatan the King" on reverse was overstriked. Can you, please, to help me to define the new coin? I think, on reverse I can recognize the base of cornucopia. But what about the reverse side? It is definitely not the standard "Yehonatan the high priest...".

Thanks,
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Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2005, 11:12:51 am »
John Hyrcanus II (Yonatan)
AE prutah, Hendin 478

it is overstruck with Yonatan the High Priest and the Council of the Jews, surrounded by wreath with :Greek_Lambda: E"X"A, on the reverse is a double cornucopia
This type is always struck on top of Yehonatan's lily type.

~Zach

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2005, 11:34:32 am »
Thank you, Zach.

My source is Meshorer's Threasure. And there appears that it is only theory that the Hyrcanus II jew name was Yonatan, and probably "Yonatan" appearing on part of double cornucopia coind is actually some shortage of "Yehonatan" and this type belongs to Alexander Janeus. Does Hendin described different theory? And what are his explainations?

Thanks,
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Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2005, 11:58:20 am »
Yes, he does.  We do not know John Hyrcanus's hebrew name.  Yonatan coins were sometimes struck over Yehonatan coins, and no longer contain the title king, which Yhonatan held, and Hyrcanus did not.  Hyrcanus was only High Priest and ethnarch.  Also, it makes very little sense for a rulere to restrike his own coins.  What would make more sense is if there were a large number left in theh mint upon his death, and Salome issued them in the name of hewr son the high priest, who later replaced her as ruler.  Or it may be that Hyrcanus overstruck these lily types during his reign.

~Zach

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2005, 12:14:14 pm »
Thank you again, Zach,

This explaination make sense. Especially: "Also, it makes very little sense for a rulere to restrike his own coins."

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Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 11:38:04 pm »
 :Judean_mah_3: :Judean_waw_1: :Judean_lam_1: :Judean_shin_1:
Hi folks it was along time since I didnt write any thing at Forum.
any way I welcome my self back  ;D hehehhe
dear friends Zach and Boris, Meshror thought befor that John Hyrcanus II (Yonatan) is the only Hyrcanus until Ahoard of bronze show up with Nabatean coins and some greeks and Hyrcanus I coins only with no Alexander Jannaius coins, then it apear that there are two Hyrcanus I and II.
yonatan didnt over struck the lilly type but also the Prutah of alexander Jannaius like this one is showing under type tracks from Hendin 469, plz see the picture I attached.
 :Judean_mah_3: :Judean_lam_2:  :Judean_alef_5: :Judean_shin_1:

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2005, 11:47:26 pm »
hi Salem,
glad to have you posting again! ;D
isn't this coin overstruck on Hendin 467?  It has the anchor and BASILEOS ALEXANDROY on the reverse, just like 469, but it also has the lily on the obverse, making it 467.  This would then make it 478, a Hyrcanus II type, Hendin 478.   

 :Judean_kaf_3: :Judean_alef_1: :Judean_tsad_3:

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2005, 11:52:49 pm »
why lilly dear Zach, Is see tracks of wreath that came from the over struck, and it seems that this coin  strucked twice  at Yonatan time, plz give me explaination why you think it is lilly, and we will see I might be wrong  ???
all the best Zach

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2005, 11:59:50 pm »
on the left picture, on the bottom, I see a point with two "leaves" coming off near the base, which looks exactly like the base of the lily in the drawing of the lily in Hendin for 467.  the top of the coin looks clearly overstruck, which makes me think that it was overstruck on top of this coin.  This makes it seem even more likely that it was 478 overstruck on 467 because there were many, many Yonatan coins overstruck on 467 coins specifically.  Do you see it, or am I just imagining this?   :)
~Zach

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2005, 12:07:54 am »
the two leaves in the lilly type are not strighet they are like half cercil going down, what you are talking about is part of the wreath not lilly leaves :) but I will go with the lilly for one thing the border of dots that apearing in the over struck because Hendin 469 havent dots around the rays, still you got it right Zach  ;D
all the best
Salem

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Re: Overstrucked Yehonatan Lily lepton
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2005, 03:08:36 am »
Hi Salem and Zach,

The following picture probably will clarify the lily issue. This is the lower part of obverse.

Regards,
Explorer

 

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