FAKE CHECK PLEASE: Julius Caesar dupondius – CAESAR DIC TER, C CLOVI PRAEF

[Ibanez D]

Dear Forum Members,

I would like to kindly ask for your assistance, as I am uncertain about the authenticity of a coin in my possession.

On this forum, I’ve only come across one similar counterfeit, which was quite clearly not genuine. When browsing listings on various auction sites, I don’t see any major issues with the style or surface of my piece. However, there appear to be possible casting seam marks along the edge. The weight seems appropriate at 14.35 grams.

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who owns a similar specimen could take a moment to compare theirs with mine—or even share photos—so I can better assess its authenticity.

Thank you very much in advance for any insights or contributions!

Coin type: Julius Caesar dupondius – CAESAR DIC TER, C CLOVI PRAEF

Best regards, Ibanez

[Ibanez D]

rev.

[Ibanez D]

edge1

[Ibanez D]

edge2

[Ibanez D]

edge3

[Din X]

The edge is ok, mine has such an edge, too.
You can find such a strange edge on some Roman and Greek coin emissions.
A casting seem looks different.

Pictures of mine

Here are some of my coins with such an edge.

https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70009&p=610923&hilit=clovius#p610923

[Ibanez D]

Dear Din X,

Thank you very much for your reply and for taking the time to look.

So based on the edge, I don’t need to worry — but what would you say regarding the authenticity of the coin overall?

Congratulations on your beautiful piece and the excellent photos.

Best regards.

[Din X]

Dear Din X,

Thank you very much for your reply and for taking the time to look.

So based on the edge, I don’t need to worry — but what would you say regarding the authenticity of the coin overall?

Congratulations on your beautiful piece and the excellent photos.

Best regards.

The coin is very likely authentic as far as it is possible to tell based on this pictures.
 

[Joe Sermarini]

Interesting. A perfect example of why it helps to know the genuine type. Most ancient Greek and Roman coins with a seam on the edge like that are cast fakes. The types that retain the seam from pre-strike flan casting are relatively few.

[glebe]

So what's the difference between a casting seam and a non-casting seam?

Ross G.

[Joe Sermarini]

A casting seam is a casting seam, but there are a few struck ancient types, very few, that retain the seam from pre-strike casting. Perhaps they were deliberately obliterated in most cases, maybe as an anti-counterfeiting measure. Some types where seams do exist on genuine struck coins include some Roman Republic bronzes, Judean Kingdom bronzes of Mattathias Antigonus, and it seems this Julius Caesar dupondius type. If anyone can remember others, please list them in a post below.

[Din X]

For casting you take generally an imprint of the obverse and reverse of a coin.
This 2 imprints are the casting mould.
For casting this two imprints (1 obverse and 1 reverse) will be connected and lay on each other, Between this two imprins will be generally often a small gape. Where the gape is there will be later the seam.
So the edge of the cast fake will have an identical edge shape as the mother coin and a seam where the gape between the two imprints had been.

Some ancient greek and even on some Roman  coins there can be casting seams on the edge and they were minted with globular planchet casted in casting moulds which consisted of two halves at the gape between the halves there is the casting seam.

Romans and Greeks had casted flat round planchets too.
You can cast them in clay or stone moulds, the mould is actually only round holes that are connected to each other and on top they are open so no casting seam. The mould is open and not closed.
I am not sure it Romans or Greeks were using casting moulds consisting 2 side/parts too and only here you could get a seam if you have a mould consiting of 2 parts and then you get a seam whre the two halves/parts are joined together. 

There can be a seam with file marks very likely from planchet obverse and reverse smoothing or finishing process on some Roman and Greek coins.

You can not always see there file marks clearly but I assume that they had been there in most cases.
It actually looks like as there had been something like two files on both side and they were filing the edge lateral to create an artificial seam.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190126122842/http://www.classicalcoins.com/flans5.html


"Those who have experience in metal filing would recognize this diagonal orientation of the marks as characteristic of the filing stroke that a machinist would naturally use. Such filing could also have been performed on a flan that was rotating. It is interesting to note that the edge is biconical,  with a parting line that is much closer to the reverse side than to the obverse side. Clearly the mold was split at this parting line and it appears from the image that the runner must have been on the obverse side of the mold. "
 


 

[Din X]

Seam of  my Sextus Pompeius

[Din X]

My Ptolemy

[Din X]

Mysia, Pergamon

[Din X]

Here is a very likely athentic Roman provincial coin of Augustus mint Philippi with such an edge.
Not my coin so I can not post pictures

https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63375

It have heard that there is such an edg on some Nemausus Asses, too.

[Joe Sermarini]

...Not my coin so I can not post pictures...

Thanks Din X.

You can post pictures that are not your own coin or photos. If someone later claims copyright, we may have to take them down. That is rare, we get very few complaints and we believe the educational use exception applies even if they do.

[Ibanez D]

The coin is very likely authentic as far as it is possible to tell based on this pictures.

Vielen Dank nochmals.

[Tiziana P]

I’ve only come across one similar counterfeit, which was quite clearly not genuine. When browsing listings on various auction sites, I don’t see any major issues with the style or surface of my piece. 

Hi Ibanez D,

You mentioned in your post that you came across a similar counterfeit of the C. Clovius Dupondius. Could you provide any images or links related to that example?

To me, your coin looks fine. It was probably heavily cleaned, but other than that, I haven’t spotted any clear signs of it being a fake. Edged rim seems to be not abnormal. These dupondii are generally difficult to read due to the rough nature of their design—not just from corrosion, but structurally in its design as well. Even well-preserved pieces tend to appear a bit raw.

Kind regards,

Tiziana