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Author Topic: Need info about antique medal  (Read 505 times)

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Offline Jose L

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Need info about antique medal
« on: January 12, 2022, 09:16:38 pm »
Hello, I'd like to know if somebody could give me a clue about this medal please. Thank you.

Offline SC

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 08:24:03 am »
Even though it is a medal and not a coin you might be better posting this in the Medieval coins section to get the right viewers.

And add weight and diameter.

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2022, 10:10:35 am »
Medieval coins.

Probably much later. At least XV-XVI century.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2022, 11:29:15 am »
Does anyone know what this is? I found it on some modern ecclesial heraldry. Is it a key?

Steve
Steve Moulding
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2022, 12:12:31 pm »
OK, it's the symbol associated with Saint Lawrence' martyrdom. So that is likely who is depicted on the left. That could help in identification.
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Offline Ron C2

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2022, 12:20:08 pm »
Martyred in 258 under Valerian.

The Basilica of San Lorenzo Fuori le Mura (St. Lawrence Outside the Walls), Rome, was built over his burial place.

It might ba a tourism piece from the Basilica?
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R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline SC

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2022, 04:59:03 pm »
Then it is rather gruesome - a gridiron - as St. L was slow roasted over a fire. 

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 07:43:55 pm »
This is a much more recent medal but otherwise a quite similar obverse figure. 1977 Nürnberg, commemorating 500 years of the choir at the Lorenzkirche.

https://www.ma-shops.de/frank/item.php?id=3495

Steve Moulding
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 07:54:06 pm »
1520, also Nurnberg. I think we're getting close.
Steve Moulding
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 08:54:59 pm »
My final complete guess:

Nurnberg. Around 1500. Given to wealthy citizens of the city who helped finance the building of the choir (the citizens did do that, it seems). The reverse heraldry looks like that belonging to a knight, rampant lion(?) at the top above a knight's helmet(?), combined with possibly the ecclesial heraldry of the lorenzkirche below. "EK" may be the donor's initials? Or the bishop's (or bishop-equivalent). This is likely all completely wrong.

The image here is from a ~1500 book of the heraldry of the families of Nuremberg, now in the library of congress. The rampant animal looks a bit different, but many variations can be seen in the book.
https://www.loc.gov/item/49038313/


Steve
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Offline Ron C2

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2022, 09:56:03 pm »
struck coin initials would not be for a coin recipient.  Each die would have to have been engraved from scratch for each recipient - this would not have happened in practise.
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R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2022, 05:31:36 am »
Given to wealthy citizens of the city who helped finance the building of the choir (the citizens did do that, it seems).

Nice guess but why honorary medal is so worn out? It should lie all the time: first in a visible place, then in a drawer, then in a box in basement, etc.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 06:20:21 am »
A lot can happen over centuries, and this specimen was as likely found in the ground than in a box or basement. Religious medals are often carried, sometimes for luck.

I don't think it has a lot of wear. Most of what is missing or weak was likely missing or weak when it was struck.
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Offline PeterD

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 09:07:00 am »
Interesting that Nuremberg has been mentioned several times. It was there that the Krauswinckel family produced enormous amounts of Jettons or Tokens, known as 'Nuremberg Jettons'.
One maker was Egidius Krauswinkel (EK), who was active between 1570 and 1613.

The design dosen't match any of the normal designs, but perhaps this one was a 'special' for local use.
Peter, London

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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2022, 09:45:34 am »
Yes! I think you have it! That's brilliant information. Here is another Jeton by him. 
https://www.identification-numismatique.com/t6423-jeton-de-nuremberg-au-maitre-d-ecole-signe-e-k
The decoration with crosses encircling the figure looks very similar. And there is an EK signature, with a similar looking K.

Great!

Steve
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2022, 09:51:20 am »
Another from CoinArchives (cached google image). Trying to get the description..,
Steve Moulding
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2022, 09:54:51 am »
Münz Zentrum Rheinland. 10.03.2021.
Auction 193. Lot 1289

RECHENPFENNIGE
DEUTSCHLAND.
NÜRNBERG.
Egidius Krauwinckel, Meister 1570 oder früher, +1613. Cu-26/27mm o.J. Hl. Lorenz steht in Bordüre v.v. / Behelm. Lorenz-Doppelwappen; unten E K. Neum. 32202, Mitch. - , Stalzer 185. .
s-
Steve Moulding
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Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2022, 10:01:16 am »
And finally, the Sixbid link with Estimated Price etc. This one didn't sell.
https://www.sixbid.com/en/muenz-zentrum-rheinland/8250/rechenpfennige/6817508/deutschland?term=1289

Thanks, especially PeterD who cracked it. This was a great hunt.

Steve
Steve Moulding
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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2022, 10:07:47 am »
Well done, PeterD!  +++

So medal is not very antique but four hundred years is also a respectable age. Not precious but quite interesting.
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Offline Pekka K

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2022, 10:09:11 am »

And yet another, with longer description:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4569305

Pekka K

Offline Jose L

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2022, 02:48:03 pm »
Thank you very much for such amount of information. You all are amazing. I really appreciate it.

Offline Steve Moulding

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2022, 03:19:59 pm »
You're welcome, Jose. Hope it was useful! These questions that appear out of nowhere are - to me anyway - a great chance to learn about something I would likely never otherwise look at. This one took ideas and help from knowledgeable members here and some hunting on the internet. Definitely a more rewarding conversation than someone just immediately giving you the answer. And now I kind of want to buy one of these, just to remember it all!  :laugh:

Cheers,

Steve
Steve Moulding
New York

Offline Jose L

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Re: Need info about antique medal
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2022, 08:40:59 pm »
Absolutely. It's amazing and at the same time satisfying how many people can learn at the same time about a tiny piece of history. Now at least Mr. Egidius Krauwinckel is not a stranger anymore for a group of people who admire his work no matter the time that has passed.

 

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