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Author Topic: Unknown Greek coin 1  (Read 577 times)

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Jj W

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Unknown Greek coin 1
« on: October 06, 2021, 03:53:10 pm »
(I'm pasting this same intro into all my first posts to level set. Thanks for your patience)
-----------------

Hello all,


I'm new here.  Please be kind :)

So I recently found out about auctions for ancient coins and artifacts.  I've mostly just been buying things that feel interesting or give me a good feeling.  I have always loved archeology and history, and also been a minor coin collector since childhood.

I'm not really collecting as an investment, more as a form of time travel.  I just love touching and holding these objects and imagining who may have held it when it was newer.  Having some kind of historical context to these objects is what I am mostly after. 

Also, I am strongly interested in attempting to restore everything to as close to what it looked like when it was new(er).  I don't want to destroy anything, but I also do want to be "aggressive" in the restoration efforts in an attempt to do so.

-----------------

So with this unknown coin ($25) I'm looking for

1. Any info you all might think about it.
     a. There was literally no description for it at all.
     b. It feels very smooth.
2. Best advice to attempt to restore it.
     a. What material is this?  Seems different than some bronze ones I have.

Thank you for reading and I really do appreciate your time and look forward to learning more and being part of your community.

All the best,
JJ Walker

Offline marylannin

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2021, 04:52:44 pm »
It is Demetrios I.....weight and diameter, please.

M

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2021, 06:21:17 pm »
Unfortunately that one is very likely fake.
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Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2021, 06:35:17 pm »
It is Demetrios I.....weight and diameter, please.

M

Sorry I should have thought of that.

11.46g
2.9cm

Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 06:37:45 pm »
Unfortunately that one is very likely fake.

That's sad.  Thanks for the reply.  I'm sure mostly it's because you've seen so many you can tell easily, but anything in particular that you saw here that made you think so?  And if it's fake, would it be modern fake, or old fake?  And why would someone go through the effort to fake one like this with a low value?

Offline Altamura

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2021, 01:55:39 am »
... but anything in particular that you saw here that made you think so?  ...

It is simply because the original is made of silver :-\:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8127468
http://numismatics.org/sco/id/sc.1.1640

A bronze coin of this type does not exist.

Regards

Altamura

Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 10:55:10 am »
Welp, that would put a nail in it.  Thank you.

So are these aren't really modern fakes are they?  I would imagine maybe 500 years ago someone faking a coin like this would get much more out of it than someone today.  With material and time cost I can't imagine a modern one making more than $10 from these.  Or am I mistaken?  If it's an old times forgery, that has an interesting "value" to me on it's own.

Offline otlichnik

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 07:17:44 pm »
No, this would be a modern fake.  Costs pennies to make in the Middle East or Afghanistan and sells for a mark up of 100s to 1000s!

Aside from the wrong metal there are clues.  Many casting bubbles in the body, 'soapy" or soft details that are easy to distinguish from wear (when you have the experience), also not sure what is going on with the flattened part of the legend.

SC
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Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2021, 10:41:53 am »
Oh I see!  That is a great write up, thank you.  This should be a fun treasure hunt item for the kids then.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2021, 10:53:24 am »
Hi Jj W,

Since I am a moderator here, I would like to remind you of another minor Forum rule that you seem to be not familiar with. Owner Joe doesn't like it when you quote a post directly above your post. Quotes should only be used when quoting a post that is not directly above your post. The only exception to this rule is when you are quoting only a portion of the post above.

Again, this is not a big mistake. It's another minor mistake. It's nothing to worry about. I modified your posts where you made this error.

Meepzorp

Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2021, 11:08:46 am »
I see.  Thank you for pointing that out.

Offline Altamura

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2021, 11:37:24 am »
Quote from: Meepzorp on October 08, 2021, 10:53:24 am
... Joe doesn't like it when you quote a post directly above your post. ...
And where did Jj W do that?

Regards

Altamura

Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2021, 11:52:54 am »
I did do that, I think he edited my posts.  Thanks for that though.  I'm actually not sure this is the right forum for me.  I didn't realize that the focus here was retail, I thought it was just a group of people who enjoyed discussing and sharing these sorts of things.  I'm not really interested in selling anywhere or buying from collectors.  I'm more interested in the history and imagination aspect. 

Offline Altamura

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2021, 12:17:31 pm »
... I did do that, I think he edited my posts.  ...
Oops. I didn't see that, sorry :-\.

...  I didn't realize that the focus here was retail, I thought it was just a group of people who enjoyed discussing and sharing these sorts of things.  ...
I think it is both, there are just some "boundary conditions" you have to meet  :). But besides of that it is a great place to speak about ancient coins  :).

Regards

Altamura

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2021, 12:47:40 am »
Hi Alta,

As Jj pointed out, he did do that. In fact, he did it numerous times. I edited about 5-8 of his posts for that reason. Apparently, you saw all of those posts after I edited them.

There is no need to apologize. You probably weren't aware of my numerous edits.

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2021, 01:01:52 am »
I'm actually not sure this is the right forum for me.  I didn't realize that the focus here was retail, I thought it was just a group of people who enjoyed discussing and sharing these sorts of things.  I'm not really interested in selling anywhere or buying from collectors.  I'm more interested in the history and imagination aspect.

Hi Jj,

Why do you feel that this is not the right forum for you? Please don't feel that way. You just made some "rookie mistakes", like a rookie quarterback in the NFL. These were minor mistakes. They weren't serious offenses. Believe me, if you committed serious offenses, owner Joe would let you know about it. This is all part of the learning process. We are all glad to have you here. Everyone is welcome.

As Alta pointed out, there are some "boundary conditions" (or parameters) that you need to abide by. It keeps Forum running smoothly. It prevents people from "clogging up the works" with useless nonsense.

Why do you feel that the focus here is on retail? Noting could be further from the truth. The antithesis of that is true. Buying and selling is prohibited here (in the general Forum), except in limited areas and conditions. This is an academic/intellectual message board. In fact, that is one of the reasons why we don't discuss prices here, because owner Joe doesn't want the discussion to degenerate into what people feel coins are worth. Here, the focus is on the coins, intellectually and academically.

It is good that you are interested in the history aspect of the coins. So is everyone else here. Apparently, you are not seeing that these rules are in place to ensure that.

Meepzorp

Jj W

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2021, 02:21:57 pm »
Much appreciated Meep.  I did try here.  And I can very much understand the various restrictions.  I mean if you're running a store selling items at a certain price, it makes sense to restrict discussion of prices of similar items bought elsewhere.  Also makes sense to remove prices of sold items too.  Also where you bought, etc etc.  I'd do the exact same thing if this were my shop

Some members here seem really great and I've had some nice conversations and incredible attributions that I am amazed they've found.   I've also had some incredibly rude replies as well.  Just overall doesn't fit for me here.  But thank you very much for reaching out.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2021, 08:31:20 pm »
I mean if you're running a store selling items at a certain price, it makes sense to restrict discussion of prices of similar items bought elsewhere.

Hi Jj W,

As I mentioned above, that is not then reason why owner Joe doesn't want prices discussed here in Forum. The reason is that he doesn't want the discussion to degenerate into an argument over what different people feel a coin is worth. That is "useless nonsense". Here, the discussion is about the coins (academically and intellectually), not the prices.

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2021, 08:35:50 pm »
I've also had some incredibly rude replies as well.

Hi Jj W,

Who was rude to you? I didn't notice any rude posts.

Perhaps you mistook passion for rudeness? Some Forum members are very passionate about their coins and also the "haven" that Forum is. Forum is unlike many places on the internet, and we want to keep it that way.

Meepzorp

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2021, 01:05:33 am »
Hi Jj W,
I hope you are still here to read this because I don't want you to feel you should leave the forum because this is simply the best coin forum on the Internet. Sometimes people here can be brutally honest and that may come across as rudeness, I can understand that a new person might take some things that way. I would also not disagree that there are perhaps too many rules. LOL. But, I also realize that maybe all these rules keep this a very serious site devoted to ancient coins and you are not going to find the level of expertise that is here anywhere else. I am constantly amazed by the quality of posts here and how many true experts there are who give their advice and knowledge freely. There is very little of this on the Internet any longer. And this is indeed a forum that is focused on intellectual aspects of coin collecting and the history of ancient coins, as well as identification help and an extensive fake coin repository that protects us all. Anyway, I just wanted to say you and all serious collectors are welcome here. Hang in there, those who you think might have been rude are just passionate about this field and a few are old curmudgeons like me with not enough tact. This forum is provided by Joe, who has a coin shop, but the forum is not about his shop and his coins for sale, it is separate. Yet, we do understand that he is providing a service to us at his own expense and I understand why there are rules about other sellers. I would actually pay to be a member here if that was needed to keep this Forum going, it is that important to me. So, I buy coins from his shop when he has ones I want and that I can afford. And I am very comfortable in knowing I will get authentic coins when I do so. It is a win-win as I see it and I buy coins from other places, as well.

Anyway, I hope you stick around.

Regards,
Virgil

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2021, 05:14:44 pm »
Jj W registered with a fake name and address. Troll or not, he is gone now. 
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline PMah

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2021, 07:50:21 pm »
I think I was the "rude" guy.  I confess. I hoped he was asking questions in good faith, because we need more ancient coin collectors,  but I had a strong sense that he was misrepresenting his interest. My professional work often nvolves people who deceive other people, usually for money.
      It is difficult to convey how I get a sense that someone is misrepresenting their situation.  Some of you do not use English as your first language and so my explanation may be hard to follow, but when someone writes evasively in English in response to direct questions or direct guidance, one gets a sense that they are hoping someone will write words that they can use to justify an outcome that has nothing to do with the question.  English is a great language for being clear IF you want to be clear, and also great for being evasive.
  By the way, I adopted "he", but, "on the internet, no one knows you're a dog."   Keep that in mind when responding to people who seem to want something.
Be Well, Masks Work, Stay Healthy!

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Offline Virgil H

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2021, 12:08:51 am »
PMah,
I can see where you are coming from. I can be very naive. What you say has merit in thinking about his or her posts, plus what Joe said. I am not at all surprised he is gone. And probably for the best.

Regards,
Virgil

Offline Altamura

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2021, 06:07:28 am »
... My professional work often nvolves people who deceive other people, usually for money. ...
... It is difficult to convey how I get a sense that someone is misrepresenting their situation.  ...
... one gets a sense that they are hoping someone will write words that they can use to justify an outcome that has nothing to do with the question.  ...
Interesting telediagnosis.

Regards

Altamura

Offline otlichnik

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Re: Unknown Greek coin 1
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 09:00:56 am »
In the Oil Lamps section Strobilius (the moderator and renowned oil lamp expert) was even more direct - he found the same thing as others did and called "him" on it.

Whether true troll or someone who just desperately wanted to be told he was "right" despite all the contrasting opinions and experience is something I doubt we will ever know.

But what Joe found out serves as the proverbial nail in the coffin either way.

SC


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