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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Lipara's tetras 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Lipara's tetras  (Read 324 times)
Luigi G
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« on: April 28, 2021, 04:21:11 pm »

I found this tetras from Lipara just sold on an auction site. I think it is a clone of a fake coin present in the database:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=14

This is the description of the coin:
Sicily, Lipara. Æ Tetras (31 mm, 23.18 g). Ca. 425-400 BC.
Obv: Helmeted head of Aiolos right.
Rev: ΛIΠAPAION, three pellets.
Ref: CNS 5; HGC 1761.
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Luigi G
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2021, 04:23:58 pm »

This is the sure fake coin from the database (for better comparison):

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Din X
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2021, 04:19:03 am »

Almost all of my Sicilian dies are transfer dies, copied form authentic coins, but often the dotted border and sometimes other details were recut.

Both coins you have posted were sold before by nfs "aitnacoins"

https://www.coryssa.org/239067/subcategory_id/6014/page/1/keywords/lipara/search2/yes/date_to/2021-04-29/use_checkboxes/0/search_title/on/period/all/list_order/date/list_order_dir/desc/period/all/

https://www.coryssa.org/1298315/subcategory_id/6014/page/1/keywords/lipara/search2/yes/date_to/2021-04-29/use_checkboxes/0/search_title/on/period/all/list_order/date/list_order_dir/desc/period/all/

And both seem to be transfer die fakes. The one from your fist post is a very dangerous fake can not wait to have it in hand.

The coin from your first post was first sold as mentioned before by  nfs "aitnacoins"  and was then in 2 auctions (J. Auction 43 15.09.2017 and J Auction 44 13.09.2018)  of a very reputable German auction house and was always unsold and later listed by same auction house on mashops, I wrote them about the tainted pedigree ex nfs "aitnacoins" and it was listed a while after this as sold (even withdrawn coins will be listed on mashops as sold). And some years after this  it was offered in an auction of catawiki, which ended yesterday and sold for € 191. I was highest bidder


Pictures 1-3 same coin
Picture 4 another picture of the fake which seems to be in fake reports 8fake from Luigi´s second post)
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Din X
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2021, 04:26:03 am »

If someone is interested in conspiracy and fake news/information I can recommend

https://numismaticfakes.wordpress.com/category/greek-coins/sicily/lipara/


"The obverse die is invented, the interrupted dotted border intersecting the beard is inconsistent with the style of the real coinage of Lipara"

Lol, without words
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Luigi G
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2021, 09:26:05 am »

And some years after this  it was offered in an auction of catawiki, which ended yesterday and sold for € 191. I was highest bidder


A lot of money for a fake coin... at least we will not see it in an auction again, very thanks.

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djmacdo
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2021, 01:34:06 pm »

I would not bet on that!  No matter how often exposed as fake, such coins tend to show up again and again.
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Din X
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2021, 09:11:06 am »

Got today this message from auction house today

Order has been cancelled seller refuses to ship the coin!

"Sehr geehrter Herr ....,


wir kontaktieren Sie heute wegen Ihres Ankaufs. Es geht dabei um dieses Objekt: https://www.c...../l/47700419.

Wir haben den Verkäufer erreichen können, dieser gab jedoch an, das Objekt nicht versenden zu wollen.

Da der Verkäufer den Versand des Objekts, welches Sie gekauft haben, verweigert, sind wir gezwungen, den Ankauf zu annullieren. Wir werden Ihnen nun den vollen Kaufpreis, inkl. Versandkosten und Provisionsgebühren, zurückerstatten. Der Betrag sollte innerhalb der nächsten 10 Werktage auf Ihrem Konto eingehen.

Wir möchten uns aufrichtig bei Ihnen entschuldigen. Wir verstehen, wie enttäuschend es für Sie sein muss, dieses besondere Objekt nicht erhalten zu können. Wir möchten Ihnen versichern, dass wir entsprechende Schritte gegen den Verkäufer einleiten, um einen solchen Fall in Zukunft zu vermeiden. Dieses Verhalten entspricht nicht unseren Richtlinien.

Ebenfalls möchten wir darauf hinweisen, dass die Annullierung dieser Transaktion keinerlei Auswirkung auf die Gültigkeit des Kaufvertrags hat. Das bedeutet: Sie können selbstverständlich Kontakt mit dem Verkäufer aufnehmen, um Ihre Rechte aus dem Kaufvertrag geltend zu machen.

Wir bedauern diesen Verlauf sehr und entschuldigen uns vielmals für die Unannehmlichkeiten. Wir hoffen, dass wir Sie zukünftig wieder auf C..... begrüßen dürfen.

Cordialement,

Chloé
Service Client C....."



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Ron C2
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2021, 03:37:37 pm »

Interesting - did the seller know you were buying it to showcase it as a fake?  Maybe he feared his identity might get out?
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lawrence c
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2021, 05:08:55 pm »

I don't know who would be the most vexed about this, you or the auction house. I suppose I was naive, but I assumed that most auction houses would actually have the coin in hand. I suppose this could be all about the consigner not getting the price that he/she expected, but still rather strange.
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Din X
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 05:07:44 am »

Quote from: lawrence c on May 01, 2021, 05:08:55 pm
I don't know who would be the most vexed about this, you or the auction house. I suppose I was naive, but I assumed that most auction houses would actually have the coin in hand. I suppose this could be all about the consigner not getting the price that he/she expected, but still rather strange.

It would have been easy for you to find the listing and the auction house starting with C., it is listing its auctions at sixbid and numisbids. But they do not have the articles they are selling in hand like it is the case on ebay sales and so it is comparable with ebay but more reliable with much less fakes.

I gave the seller a negative evaluation and he responded

"Absolutely false, I bid to sell this currency at ... with a price reserve of CHF 400. .... did not take this reservation into account."

He worte the name of auction house wrong K instead of C, I removed name of auciton house and substituted with ....

This is really sad for me becasue I have the transfer dies and one of these fakes already but this fakes had a superior patina than my fake Sad
This is an extremely dangerous fake, the style is 100% legit and the patina looks deceptive, too.
The main problem is pedigree nfs "aitnacoins"  and that we know about the transfer die.


To find the listing is easy only do this in google search (it will be first result).

Sicily, Lipara. Æ Tetras (31 mm, 23.18 g)


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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Lipara's tetras « previous next »
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