collector's hoards(?)

[JBF]

Long ago, I read something in passing saying that there are ancient hoards that were evident that they were intentionally collected.  I wonder if anyone has heard this or knows of any ancient hoards meeting that description.  The one I can think of is the modern hoard of Gold double Eagles found in cans in California.  But that is not ancient.  Also I have vaguely heard of a hoard of ancients discovered in California near one of the Spanish missions, presumably a Spanish priest had his own personal collection.  Whether that is so or not, I do not know, but it is probably good to remember that one can have a hoard of ancients, that is not an ancient hoard.

I assume an ancient collector's hoard would have a wide variety of types, of decent condition, with little duplication.  If you have heard about such a hoard, and can reference it or describe it, please do so.  I have IGCH (Inventory of Greek Coin Hoards), but no material on hoards other than Greek.

[curtislclay]

I doubt that any ancient hoard has come to light that clearly contains a coin collection, because I have never seen a reference to such a hoard in the fairly numerous discussions of whether or not the ancient Greeks and Romans collected coins.

[JBF]

Don't quote me on this, but I think was Wayne Sayles who hypothesized in his first Ancient Coin Collecting book about ancient collectors, I seem to remember that there was some circumstantial evidence, namely Augustus' gifts of engraved gems, and also perhaps ancient coins.  Also, Aristotle sometimes referred to coin types in his Constitutions.  But, of course, that is just circumstantial.  It would be interested if an ancient hoard could be associated with collecting activity.  We do have at least one associated with r a money changer (Tarentum) and a silver worker (Asset).

[Dominic T]

It was a tradition in ancient Rome and Greece to offer coins as gift during some festivities.Ovid, a roman poet who was a contemporary of the first emperor of Rome, reported in his writings that Augustus perpetuated such a custom. The historian Suetonius recorded the same thing about him : « On the Saturnalia, and at any other time when he took it into his head, he would now give gifts of clothing or gold and silver :again coins of every device, including old pieces of the kings and foreign money ». We can easily imagine he had a variety of republican coins, probably greek ones as well in his collections..

[cmcdon0923]

I think the only way we'd ever be able to prove a group of coins was an actual collection would be if they were all found in little 2x2 papyrus envelopes with descriptions scribed on them.


Craig

[Serendipity]

Did more well-to-do ancients collect coins? The first coin collector is said to have been Augustus. According to Suetonius, he gave "coins of every device, including old pieces of the kings and foreign money" as Saturnalia gifts just as a modern coin collector would gift coins as Christmas presents. It’s neither too far-fetched nor anachronistic to imagine the mild-mannered Augustus as history’s first recorded coin collector. He was a very different character from the militaristic Julius Caesar and philosophical Marcus Aurelius.

Are some ancient coin hoards collector hoards? We need to bear in mind that the demographic of those collecting coins in the past was probably far much smaller than it is today and confined to the more well-to-do. During the Renaissance, for example, it was mostly kings and queens who collected and gifted coins like Augustus. An undisturbed earthenware pot full of Roman coins of varying denominations is not necessarily hard evidence for ancient coin collections. Political instability and deflation in the third century is a more credible explanation why one such unusual haul which included coins minted by 21 emperors and three emperors' wives were buried together in a field near Frome, Somerset.

[JBF]

I don't think the question is one of whether we have conclusive proof or certainty.  I think that it is more a question of probability, and plausibility.  I think that a "hoard" which was an assembled collection would be assembled different than a regular hoard would be, and could reflect that difference.  So, to me it is plausible that (some) collector hoards might be recognized as such from their different manner of composition.  To me, it is improbable that someone would do that with a collection, on the other hand I am sure a lot of people's collections are buried in banks. End result is that if we actually found a collector's hoard, we might be able to recognize it.  Conversely, if we have not recognize it, a good chance is that we haven't found one (find, _&_ recognized).

I am not sure whether what I call a "collectors hoard" is a hoard proper, just as wishing well might not be considered a hoard either because of the manner of the collection.  I am not sure.