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Author Topic: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz  (Read 421 times)

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« on: February 09, 2021, 08:48:15 am »
Powracający problem z odróżnieniem tych dwóch władców: Galeriusza (GALERIUS MAXIMIAN) i starszego od niego Maksymiana Herkuliusza (MAXIMIAN HERCULIUS).

Mój korespondent z Francji, Laurent Diot, przesłał mi niedawno kilka okazów do strony NOT IN RIC i między innymi tę ciekawą monetkę.


https://www.forumancientcoins.com/notinric/6tre-737_gal.html

Otóż RIC notuje tę rzadką odmianę (uwaga na wagę - to nie jest follis, ale połówka follisa!) jedynie dla Konstantyna jako cezara i Maksymiana Herkuliusza jako augusta (TREVERI 737-738). Tymczasem wydaje się, że na tej monetce nie jest Maksymian Herkuliusz, lecz Galeriusz jako august.

Dlaczego "wydaje się"? Czy legenda tego nie rozstrzyga? Otóż nie!

Jak bowiem wiadomo, Maksymian Herkuliusz miał duże trudności z pożegnaniem się z cesarską purpurą. Toteż po swojej abdykacji (abdykował razem z Dioklecjanem), gdy augustem został już Galeriusz, próbował jeszcze wracać do władzy - dalej z tytułem augusta, i to bynajmniej nie emerytowanego. I właśnie to bywa źródłem problemu, gdyż legendy dla obu panów mogą być, jak właśnie w tym wypadku, identyczne!

Jak teraz poznać czy ...MAXIMIANVS AVG na monecie to Herkuliusz, czy może jednak Galeriusz? Trudna sprawa, bo także portrety nie muszą być jednoznaczne. Herkuliusz w tym późnym okresie chyba lubił się nieco odmładzać, a znowu Galeriusz czasem chyba trochę stylizował się na starszego augusta, by podkreślić swoje tetrarchiczne powinowactwo. Stąd problem przy analizie portretów (gdy legendy są identyczne): czy jest to nieco odmłodzony Maksymian Herkuliusz, by mimo wieku wyglądał bardziej dziarsko czy może nieco postarzony Galeriusz, by wyglądał bardziej dostojnie.

Dla porównania trzy monetki z tej emisji przypisane Maksymianowi Herkuliuszowi. Moim zdaniem facjata jest jednak nieco inna, ale co Koledzy o tym sądzą?.





Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2021, 09:48:33 am »
The Trier mint was clearly aware of the potential confusion since they also used the long IMP C M AUREL VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG to make it clear. Therefore, I don't think they would deliberately use the same IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG legend for both emperors.

From the Trier S-C issue we see that IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG (not IMP C) was used for Galerius, and we see the same thing at Lyons where the bust styles are more distinct, where it's also obvious that IMP C VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG is being used for Maximianus.

I think at Trier, same as Lyons, the intention is that IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG is Galerius, and IMP C VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG is Maximianus.

Those specimens are certainly interesting as the portrait (unlike Lyons) is fairly ambiguous, and given the separate roles of bust and legend engravers it's possible that some of them are mules of a sort where the bust engraver intended Maximianus, but the legend engraver mistook it for Galerius.

Ben

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2021, 10:07:15 am »
I think at Trier, same as Lyons, the intention is that IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG is Galerius, and IMP C VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG is Maximianus.

So you think that there is an error in RIC and TREVERI 738 should be corrected? All these portraits show Galerius? And that there is no Herculius' coins of this type? (or are extremely rare). Despite the fact that in 307 Constantine was close with Herculius (his father-in-law) and not-so-close with Galerius?

And what about TREVERI 751 and 754 with the same obv. legend 7c - IM MAXIMIANVS P F AVG? What might VOT XXX mean on Galerius' coins?
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2021, 11:00:30 am »
I would expect that Constantine was issuing for Maximianus at least as long as for Galerius, maybe longer. At Lyons we last see Galerius on RIC 254 (as IVN AVG!) then see Maximianus for one more issue (CI-HS).

So, I expect that after Constantine becomes augustus first we have Trier issuing:

Maximianus: IMP C M AUREL VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG
+
Galerius: IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG

then, after this:

Maximianus: IMP C VAL MAXIMIANVS PF AVG

They may have already stopped issuing for Galerius at this point (same as Lyons, stopping Galerius before Maximianus), or maybe continue Galerius (still as IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG) until the end of the PTR S-A issue.

I think the shorter legend on the vota fractions can be explained by the smaller flan size, as well as the fact that there would have been no need for disambiguation. Galerius does not appear to have been included on the fractions by Constantine, and anyways VOT XXX could only be Maximianus.

Ben

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2021, 12:44:08 pm »
I think the shorter legend on the vota fractions can be explained by the smaller flan size

Issue with Constatine and Herculius alone is understandable. With Constantine, Herculius and Galerius is expected as compared with TREVERI 714-723. But issue with Constantine and Galerius only seems strange in 307.

These coins are also fractions so shorter legend is more convenient.

For me it is hard to believe that all portraits on coins from BM, ANS, Berlin shows Galerius (the nose!). I rather expect that this portrait of supposed Galerius could be regarded as an exceptional variety of Herculius' portrait.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 pm »
I only just realized you were posting about the GENIO fraction, not the follis! I agree that these are all Maximianus (and same argument for short legend - small flan plus no ambiguity).

The combination of Constantine CAES and IMP Maximianus (but not DN) legends on same issue for all these fractions (VOTIS + GENOI) is interesting. At Lyons Maximianus's legend is changed from DN to IMP at same time as Constantine's changes from CAES to AVG (in GENIO altar + N issue), so I assume the timing is roughly the same at Trier and London.

These fractions, combining Constantine CAES with IMP Maximianus seem to have been issued right at that transition point, unless the ones for Maximianus were issued a bit later than those for Constantine.

Ben

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 08:12:59 am »
The obverse legend IMP MAXIMIANVS IVN AVG introduced in Lugdunum seems to be a very clear distinction and is short and convenient. I wonder why they did not use it universally in the domain of Constantine. Maybe it has gone too far with its political implications..
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 09:01:31 am »
Quote
The obverse legend IMP MAXIMIANVS IVN AVG introduced in Lugdunum seems to be a very clear distinction and is short and convenient. I wonder why they did not use it universally in the domain of Constantine. Maybe it has gone too far with its political implications..

Yes, maybe a step too far ... These Lyons issues (Concordia Perpet/etc) with IVN AVG seem to be Constantine's declaration of a "new world order" (or perhaps it is really Maximianus who is driving it?), and then it is quickly followed by the conference at Carnuntum and Maximianus's forced re-retirement.

Galerius was really the senior augustus (and Maximianus 2nd reign a usurper), so it was a pretty radical statement to call Galerius junior augustus - may as well just stop recognizing him altogether which is what Constantine then did. Constantine's alliance with Maximianus, and Maximianus/Maxentius's defence of Rome against Severus and Galerius had obviously forced things ... Constantine could no longer attempt to keep a neutral relationship with Galerius.

I have two of the IVN AVG coins - they are difficult to find.

Ben

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Galeriusz czy Maksymian Herkuliusz
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2021, 10:04:59 am »
so it was a pretty radical statement to call Galerius junior augustus

Perhaps this message was too clear. Whereas the situation before Carnuntum was unclear and unstable. It was probably more convenient to issue coins on which it is not quite clear who is who: Galerius or Herculius. So they could be interpreted depending on the actual situation. By contrast, IVN was clearly an insult.

Nice coins, especially the first one.
Lech Stępniewski
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