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Author Topic: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?  (Read 967 times)

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Viny J

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Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« on: February 23, 2020, 06:21:55 am »
Hello,

While searching Philip I Sestertii, i came across this beautiful one : [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

So, i specifically looked for this kind of coins to get an idea of ​​the "right" price. And i came across this one: [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

It seems to me to be the same coin. And now I'm puzzled. Can we consider the cleaning done on this coin as "professional" ?

As I'm a newbies in collecting, I really need other people's opinions in this kind of situation.

Thanks for any advice.

Offline shanxi

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 07:24:36 am »
Don't post links to other shops than FORVM!

Joe provides this forum for free, and he has a shop with many beautiful coins. Check it out!

and delete the links.


And yes, it's the same coin, but not only cleaned, it's smoothed and repatinated.

I wouldn't buy this coin.




Viny J

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 12:06:47 pm »
Thanks to Joe for hosting this great forum. I didn’t mean to abuse its kindness. I was just afraid of infringing any copyrights by posting pictures I don’t own. I will keep the FORVM shop in my mind for my next purchases.

Regarding the coin, although I expected it a little, your answer remains astonishing. As a beginner, I try to keep myself away from questionable sellers. And I didn’t expect to find a coin at this point modified on the website in question (at least without any mention of it). I should probably narrow more the sellers I trust. If I didn't find the second picture, I would have had no clue of a problem.

Since I wouldn't always have the luck to find a before/after picture, seeing only the first picture, did you see any obvious (or less obvious) red flag that I should pay attention to in the future?

Viny J

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 12:26:52 pm »
Can a moderator delete the links ? I find no way to do it myself. Thanks

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2020, 12:49:58 pm »

Here are the before and after pictures in case the links are removed:


Offline PeterD

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2020, 01:48:55 pm »
Most bronze coins have been cleaned at one time or another and when they are they need to be re-patinated or else left for a very long time to patinate naturally. I can't really comment whether this coin has been smoothed or not. I would certainly buy it if I was in the market for one.
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Offline Zenon M

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2020, 06:16:24 am »
Well, I generally don't like the overall appearance of this cleaned and repatinated coin. It looks very unnatural now - the colour should be dark honey brown, not dull black. In fact, the photograph is too small to determine how this specimen really does look like...
Usually, the cleaning should has a clear purpose: either to enhance the look of the coin or to preserve it (if endangered by active corrosion).
In my opinion the most important thing while cleaning is to know when to stop - rather too early, than to late.

Last year I had an interesting case. After receiving an attractive "follis" of Constantius I decided not to clean it, only to remove some loose yellowish crusts. Doing this I realized, that there were spots of active bronze disease under the solid looking dark green encrustations! I had no choice, but to remove them all... In this process many traces of original, darkened silvering came to light.
In the end, after conservation, the coin has retained much of its original appearance and beauty. Its colour is mostly dark brown (AE) with darker spots (silvering) and the surface is slightly glossy (without smoothing!). At a closer look also some traces of corrosion (little craters on the surface) are visible.
At least I've tried to treat this coin and its history with as much respect as possible...

A sestertius doesn't have any silvering, so: why uniformly black? In its original state of preservation one could see the proper colour under the encrustations well enough!!!

Zenon M.

Offline Warren

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 07:41:52 pm »
"Since I wouldn't always have the luck to find a before/after picture, seeing only the first picture, did you see any obvious (or less obvious) red flag that I should pay attention to in the future?"

That type of black surface is often associated with recently (severely) cleaned coins. I have a sestertius with what I think is beautiful and natural patina, but I don't recall many AE coins with that type of surface from 20 years ago. I think it is some new(ish) cleaning technique which your example proves can hide previous flaws.

Offline Warren

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 07:53:01 pm »
I just noticed that the price of the Philip sestertius jumped from 205 euros uncleaned to 550 pounds in black. That's a pretty big jump!

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 09:01:14 pm »
It is difficult to accurately know the color of coins from photographs online. Color doesn't just depend upon the photograph itself (which can be different from the coin in hand), it also depends upon the screen.

Brass does sometimes naturally form a nearly black patina. If you see an AE that is nearly black it is more likely orichalcum or brass and is less likely bronze or copper. This can be useful when trying to determine if a coin is a quadrans or a semis.
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Offline Zenon M

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Re: Cleaned Philip I sestertius ?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2020, 04:21:17 am »
It is difficult to accurately know the color of coins from photographs online. Color doesn't just depend upon the photograph itself (which can be different from the coin in hand), it also depends upon the screen.
True! I really would like to see a good photograph of this cleaned sestertius.
As for cgb.fr: their depictions are usually very correct in matter of colour (I have bought some coins from them), so I do believe, that what looked dark brown on the photo was also dark brown in hand.

Zenon M.

 

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