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Author Topic: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.  (Read 7109 times)

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Offline Charles M

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Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« on: September 17, 2009, 01:40:51 pm »
I posted this on "Uncleaned Coins" this morning but got no response.  So at the risk of breaking a discussion rule, I will repost the question here:

I just purchased a large collection of ancient greek and roman coins that have been in  old holders for decades.  Several of the coins have that green stickey plastic residue that comes when those old non-archival holders disintegrate.  What's the best way to get rid of this stuff without damaging the patina?  I deal in rare books and use lighter fluid to remove price sticker residue from fragile dust jackets and it works great.  Would this work on coins?  These are pretty valuable coins, not a bunch of LRBC's (though I love those too).

nemo

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 02:04:49 pm »
There is a commercial product called KOINSOLV marketed specifically to remove PVC residue without further compromising the coin. There may be other products as well. Do be prepared for the possibility of irreparable damage underneath the goo.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 02:15:36 pm »
Acetone is worth a try, if you can find it.  I dissolved a biro in acetone when I was at school.  I ended up with blue goo in a test-tube, with the metal writing end at the bottom, undamaged. 

Take care: it is very flammable.

Bill
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Offline Enodia

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2009, 02:31:46 pm »
you can buy acetone as nail polish remover.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 02:39:41 pm »
Nail polish remover might not contain acetone these days - check the label!

Bill
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline Enodia

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 02:48:43 pm »
the last bottle i bought did, although that was about 5 years ago so things may have changed. my wife uses it to preserve dragonflies (no, really!  ;)  ).

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 03:58:02 pm »
This is from the first nail polish remover sales site I found:

"There are three acetone formulas: Protein-Enriched Regular, Strengthening with gelatin or Nourishing with vitamin E. There’s also a Protein Enriched non-acetone formula that can be used for both artificial and natural nails."

So even the ones that contain acetone might also add gelatine or vitamin E, or enrich your coins with protein.  None of these are recommended for coin preservation!  I can't say how the dragonflies might like them.

Bill

(p.s. Vitamin E will not nourish your nails, any more than it will nourish your coins.)
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Offline slokind

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 04:21:56 pm »
On the same shelf with paint thinner and turpentine at the hardware store you can buy pints of acetone.  At first I did try nail polish remover, but it didn't work very well.  Adulterated I'm sure.  Acetone itself works just as moonmoth says; Akropolisz also recommended it.  Store in the dark away from heat; use outdoors or by an open door (in inclement weather).  Keep cap on while in use; it evaporates very quickly, being volatile.  Pat L.

Offline Romanorum

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 01:11:17 am »
Hope this is not too late.
Definitely NOT nail polish remover. There are a lot of chemicals there you don't want on your coins.  As slokind said, get pure acetone from a hardware store, found on the paint dept.
And yes, be very careful with it. It is ridiculously highly flammable, it is bad to inhale it, it is bad to touch it, it is really bad if it gets in your eyes, etc. It will melt away latex gloves if you use them, it will destroy the paint on your desk or table if you spill it, it will melt your tennis shoes. Don't smoke when you use it, don't be near a heat source. I know it's a little exaggerated, I know you're not stupid, and I know you could have guessed all of this or read it on the can, but it's a lot better to be safe.
All that being said, this is what I do with the acetone.  Bear in mind that this is what works for me, and there might be other methods that work better, but I don't know about them.
Pour some acetone on a glass container that has a lid (usually plastic, so don't let it touch the acetone; better, of course, if you don't have a plastic lid).
Get Q-tips (try to get that brand specifically, because they don't have plastic sticks that would melt away). Dip the q-tip on the acetone you poured and replace the lid (it will evaporate rapidly, and you don't want to inhale that stuff); hold your coin with another q-tip, and wipe lightly. You'll see the cotton turn green immediately. Don't forget to wipe around the edges.
Do on both sides and repeat, changing the q-tip every time until the cotton is white.  You should now see a very different coin. Further cleaning might be necessary, but the goo/scuzz should be gone from the visible surface.
However, I would recommend letting the coin soak in the container overnight. There might be some goo/scuzz in the tiny crevices which the acetone doesn't reach. The next day you might see that the acetone has aqcuired a greenish tint. Take the coin out and let the acetone evaporate from the coin. Dispose of the acetone properly (refer to the container), but not on the sink because it might melt the pvc plumbing.
I don't know what chemicals might be left on the coin, if any, since the acetone evaporates from the coin almost immediately, but to be on the safe side, I let the coin soak for a few days in distilled water, changing the water every day.  The coin might turn dull in appearance. Determine whether you want to clean the coin further (not the goo/scuzz, which should now be gone, but from other dirt or sediments or rust or whatever that's still there). Either way, when you believe that the coin needs no further cleaning, use micro-crystaline Renaissance wax (or equivalent) to restore the shine.
Try this method on one coin first and see if you like the results before you do other coins.
I would post before/after pictures to illustrate, but I don't see a way of adding an attachment on this thread.
Good luck.

Offline commodus

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 02:13:29 pm »
After cleaning, store coins in NON-VINYL (this is of the utmost importance) flips or other holders. Flips should be crisp, not soft. Softness means PVCs. PVCs are what do the damage. The non-vinyl flips will crack over time. Buy more. Don't use vinyl no matter what. I cannot stress this enough!
Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)

Offline Edessa

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 06:23:08 pm »
A nice older gentleman who lives near me sells a few ancients from his booth in a local antique mall.  Every so often I rescue a green-smeared coin from his stock just because I feel sorry for it.  I don't think he has every purchased a new flip in his life.

Eugene
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Offline Romanorum

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 01:56:53 pm »
Ok, so I miserably failed to see the "additional options" link. Sorry about that. I know better now.
I'm attaching before and after pictures. The coin might require further cleaning, depending on your taste, but here's the result after a thorough acetone de-gooing session.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 03:14:26 pm »
That looks good to me now.  The small amount of toning and what looks like some accreted dirt does not detract at all, and adds individuality.  Nice de-gooing job!
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Offline Anaximander

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 12:22:26 pm »
I am resurrecting an old topic, but the comments are still relevant.

I recently posted a coin to my gallery and received several comments, but one surprised me.  <<You should better clean the green coin flip residues from around/on the griffin. You can easily do this with pure acetone; or ask someone more experience to do this for you>>

For one thing, in all my years of numismatic collecting, I'd never heard of this.  I've only every purchased clean coins, not the uncleaned variety.  For another, I never noticed the green residues.  It is only visible under good lighting, under a jewellers loup, or when the posted picture is zoomed.  There are some very astute numismatists on this site.

The advice in this post, and in another I saw with guidance by BPMurphy, was encouraging. So I made four passes at cleaning, increasing in dosage and duration, until the results came out satisfactory.  The first effort was merely a dampened Q-tip rubbing at the affected areas.  It had little effect.  The final effort was immersion for about two minutes followed by rubbing by a Q-tip ear bud and then soft brushing using a soft-tip toothbrush. That did the trick.  Here's a before-and-after picture. 

Your thoughts and suggestions always welcomed.

Anaximander
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Offline Anaximander

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PVC Residue or Patina?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 05:31:02 pm »
Having learned about PVC residue, I wonder if what I'm seeing on my Skythian bronzes is that... or just green patination. 

Dolphin from Olbia ("big-eye") looks like PVC residue.
Dolphin from Olbia ("little-eye") also looks like PVC residue.
Arrowhead money from Borysthenes looks like green patina under encrustation.

What do you think?

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Offline Nemonater

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Re: PVC Residue or Patina?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2019, 07:19:13 pm »
Having learned about PVC residue, I wonder if what I'm seeing on my Skythian bronzes is that... or just green patination. 

Dolphin from Olbia ("big-eye") looks like PVC residue.
Dolphin from Olbia ("little-eye") also looks like PVC residue.
Arrowhead money from Borysthenes looks like green patina under encrustation.

What do you think?

Anaximander

Does it flake off at all if you pick at it with a toothpick?  It looks like it might be bronze disease to me.

Offline Anaximander

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Re: Residue from old plasticized holders--help please.
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2019, 08:02:10 am »
Yes, working with a magnifying lamp and a wooden toothpick, I can see the little green spots on the dolphins and carefully pick away at them, removing much of the visible contaminant.  Your diagnosis appears correct.  I've looked up Bronze Disease on the boards and found descriptions and prescriptions. I also found the Numiswiki article on Bronze Disease Treatment.

The numiswiki article on "Bronze Disease" appears to be a dead link. 

Following Joe Sermarini's admonition: I will gently remove what green powdery oxidation that I can, and then I'll keep the coins under observation.  I'm pulling up old photos from 2011-2017 and will add more as I go.  I am tempted to use a quick acetone bath, and I will replace the flips. I only buy "archival" quality, non-PVC flips.

Thanks for your insight.
Anaximander
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