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Author Topic: Need help with this Nicaea reverse  (Read 1224 times)

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Offline Charles M

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Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« on: May 27, 2019, 09:08:40 pm »
How would you guys describe this reverse?  Vase or cup with palm frond?  Some sort of flaming altar?  There are Nicaea reverses with flaming altars but they usually have straight sides. 

15 mm,  2.03 grams


Offline Pekka K

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 02:06:51 am »

IMHO flaming garlanded altar, similar to:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=83667

Pekka K

Offline Charles M

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 08:28:17 am »
Thanks, Pekka.  That's the conclusion I came too also but I couldn't find a similarly shaped altar.

Which begs another question.  When I search acsearch.info for this coin, it will not come up for me even using the exact  German description shown.  Do different search results come with different subscription levels?  I just have the basic free subscription. 

Charles M.

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 08:47:46 am »

I used search words in English, thesaurus takes care of translation.

The shape of the altar on your coin may be result of missing metal on
lower part of the altar. Due either of thin flan or possibly of corrosion (BD?).

Pekka K

Offline archivum

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 09:33:03 am »
Probably more remarkable on your specimen is the radiate-laureate obverse; for discussion see https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=37721.msg239006#msg239006.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Charles M

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 10:20:05 am »
Well, that was actually going to be my next question, Archivum.  The previous discussion from 2008 clears that up a lot.  I have other coins from Nicaea with similar radiate/laureate heads.  How should that be described: Laureate head right with rays ?  The rays appear to come from behind the head and are not attached to the laureate band.

Offline archivum

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 11:51:42 am »
Probably the best you can do at the moment is to flag yours as "radiate-laureate" and cross-reference the older discussion -- the radiate-laureate configuration had escaped even Curtis Clay's notice, possibly because RG omits almost all the Nicaea obverses. I agree that the rays on your coin seem to lack a clear anchor on the garland per se, but I'd call it a virtual anchor -- the emperor's wearing both marks of distinction, but the presence of the physical garland lets his rays simply sign his "pure" radiance.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Charles M

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 09:41:55 am »
I am still researching this coin.  There is a very similar coin on Wildwinds (as Caracalla).  The contributor gives a reference of Lowe 222.  The coin on Wildwinds has the same obverse and reverse legends but without the  rays behind the portrait.  What is "Lowe"?  I can find no mention anywhere else of such a reference.

Charles M.

Offline archivum

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Re: Need help with this Nicaea reverse
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2019, 12:12:59 pm »
Hello again, Charles. The coins on the links that I posted are probably closer to your coin than the specimen from WildWinds (below). As Pekka K suggests, there are many variations in the altar-contours on these lesser AEs from Nicaea depending on either the flan-shape or state of the dies (now and then, perhaps both), not to mention the wear on particular specimens still exant. It so happens that this Caracalla reverse isn't flagged in RG, but it's flagged for the rest of the family (they shared such reverses), and his version is not that uncommon; acsearch for words "altar" "nicaea" turned up two Caraacalla examples, https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3963886 and https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=502455.  As I stated, the laureate-radiate obverse went apparently unrecognized till this very discussion on Forum; apart from the Weiser catalogue of Bithynian coins housed in Koeln, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more helpful supplement to RG for Nicaea than our website's "Nicaean Addenda." To the best of my knowledge (and I've paid some attention), "Lowe 222" doesn't point in a meaningful way to any catalogue you can make use of.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

 

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