Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Reference?  (Read 1147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Flav V

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
Reference?
« on: May 04, 2019, 03:11:34 pm »
Hello,

I encounter a problem. Im searching the same coin but official... Link to the fake: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=2213

I find no official coin similar. In general case, how to know the reference for greek coins? I see many differences with letters positions etc... everywhere i see different coins but with same reference... im lost

Offline djmacdo

  • Tribunus Plebis 2017
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4483
  • I love this forum!
Re: Reference?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2019, 07:39:14 am »
Not every fake is an exact copy of an ancient coin.  Sometimes a forger will try to make a new variety.  This may be such a case.  I do not remember who have done the basic study of Gela's coin.  Will try to dig out the reference--that would be the place to check.

Offline Altamura

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2934
Re: Reference?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2019, 07:54:54 am »
...  I do not remember who have done the basic study of Gela's coin.  ...
This is probably G.K. Jenkins, "The Coinage of Gela", Berlin 1970. But I don't have access to it  :(.

Regards

Altamura

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Reference?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2019, 08:20:01 am »
I have it, but I’m confused—the link is not to a coin of Gela.

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7335
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Reference?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2019, 08:26:39 am »

Offline Brennos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: Reference?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2019, 09:23:03 am »
I find no official coin similar. In general case, how to know the reference for greek coins? I see many differences with letters positions etc... everywhere i see different coins but with same reference... im lost

There are many References for greek coins and i understand that it can be quite confusing.

Usually, the references cited are coins of the same type published in public or private collections and discribed on popular handbooks and/or on specialized publications like corpus.

For greek coins, a popular handbook has long been the Sear "Greek coins and there values". It is now more and more replaced by the Hoover "Handook of greek coinage"

For this specific coin, The ref would be Sear 713 and HGC Sicily 363.

More "academic" general handbooks are also still in used as reference : B.V. Head (Historia Numorum),  Babelon (Traité), Kraay (Archaic and Classical Greek coins)...


Published collections, mainly on Syllogue Numorum Graecorum (SNG), are very often directly used as reference. Here we could have SNG Cop 255-258 or SNG ANS 2-21 that are coins of the same type in the Danish and the ANS collections. When a coin with the exact same dies is found in a published collection, the exact reference of that coin is often used.

For Gela, a specialised study has been published by Jenkins. All the known dies for all the types have been described in a chronological sequence. For this type (Jenkins group I), 31 obv and 58 Rev dies for 103 different combinaisons have been published.

That explain why, for a single reference HGC 2 363 , you could find so many different coins.

It also explains why the libraries of "serious" greek coin collectors are huge  :laugh:

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Reference?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 09:47:35 am »
Here are some examples from Gela arranged per Jenkins’ study:

https://manfacedbullsar.wordpress.com/gela/

https://manfacedbullsar.wordpress.com/gela-v-viii/

This should help you see the stylistic differences.


Offline Flav V

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
Re: Reference?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 11:05:46 am »
thanks,

I have 0 book for greek coins except some pdf i found for Jenkins (those of the numiswiki here)... im ranking around 200 fake greek coins on my website. I dont would like to put a reference of official coin when it is a perfect copy. If i follow the references noted by sale's houses for same types, im not sur it will be the good reference. When i see all errors on roman coins, im sure it will be same for greek coins.

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity