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Author Topic: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)  (Read 2016 times)

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Offline timka

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a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« on: February 23, 2017, 04:25:09 pm »
Hi!

Some time ago I posted here left-facing Pius denarius (TR P XII) with something on his chest which appeared to be Medusa under close inspection and following confirmation from Curtis

Here is another denarius with Medusa from the same TR P XII, but with the right-facing Pius. It is tough to say if Strack ever saw this type, as he did not distinguish the types of draperies in his records. RIC and RSC did not pay attention to this kind of bust with Medusa either.

I wonder now, should this kind of bust be called 'medusa with aegis', or it is rather 'medusa with drapery/fold of cloak on far shoulder'?

Ob. ANTONINUS PIVS PP TR P XII, laur head righ with medusa
Rev. COS IIII, Annona standing left, holding corn ears over modies, and anchor

RIC 175 (bust var), RSC 284 (bust var.), St 191 (???)

2,9 g - 18mm - 6h

Offline timka

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Re: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 04:27:16 pm »
...and here is Pius versus Pius, as announced. Please pay attention to the fact that both are protected with Medusa!!! :)..so no winner this time.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 05:01:05 pm »
I had already recorded in my BMC the variety TR P XII Bust right with aegis / Annona: Frans Diederik, Forum, June 2015!

That's the aegis combined with the Medusa head, not drapery or fold of cloak.
Curtis Clay

Offline timka

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Re: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 05:19:01 am »
I had already recorded in my BMC the variety TR P XII Bust right with aegis / Annona: Frans Diederik, Forum, June 2015!


Thank you for a lead to Frans's coin! - I found it here on the Forum - so, both coins have the same obverse die, but reverse dies are different.

...also, I was always curious, why do you keep your notes in BMC, but not in RIC or RSC....is BMC more up-to-date or advanced compared to the other two?


Offline curtislclay

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Re: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 11:49:24 am »
The early BMC volumes up to their termination in 238 AD are a far better basis for determining what coins and varieties exist, than the RIC first editions for the same period.

BMC describes, primarily, the actual BM collection, one of the best in the world. If BMC says that the BM has a particular coin, we can be virtually certain that that coin exists; the chance of forgeries or misdescriptions slipping through is very small. Moreover we can often check the descriptions with our own eyes, since BMC provides illustrations of their best specimen of virtually every reverse type in the collection, though not of every bust variety. Types and varieties not in the BM collection are also described in BMC, usually as unnumbered entries or in footnotes. Most of these additional coins are probably also authentic and correctly described, but we are alerted to the fact that they may require confirmation. We may want to follow up the sources cited by BMC for these coins, to judge the reliability of the authors and perhaps find illustrations of the coins.

RIC, in contrast, started out as a mere chronological rearrangement of Cohen's alphabetical listings, with additions from the BM collection, from some other British public and private collections, and from recent commercial and scholarly publications. For most coins and varieties described, a Cohen number is the sole authority cited, usually without indication of the source quoted by Cohen. So we don't know, without checking Cohen ourselves, whether he says the coin is in the Paris collection, allowing us to presume that it probably exists and is correctly described, or cites some published description which may be less reliable. Moreover the early RIC volumes only illustrate a small proportion of the types described, mainly eliminating our ability to confirm the descriptions via photographs provided by the work itself.

RSC is a very useful and accurate compilation of the varieties described in BMC, RIC, and Strack, with some corrections and additions. However, it only covers silver coins, it has far fewer illustrations than BMC, and its densely printed pages provide little free space for writing in new varieties!
Curtis Clay

Offline timka

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Re: a new Pius with medusa... and Pius vs. Pius!)
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 03:36:54 pm »
Curtis, thank you for so comprehensive overview of all 3 major books.  Your reasons for preferring BMC are finally clear for me.  I regret that I have not found BMC in a digital form yet...would be very interesting to go through it and keep it for reference too.  Have a nice weekend! Best, Z.

 

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