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Author Topic: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!  (Read 6845 times)

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Offline NORMAN K

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Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« on: November 12, 2015, 11:15:55 am »
Which one of these photos is more to be desired if either.
I am using a rather dark and rough coin because these are the most difficult for me to photograph.
Both coins photographed with a Sony 5n and macro lens.  The lighting is a macro ring light with about 6 inches from lens to coin.
The only difference is the lighter one is direct center and the other is a few degrees off center.
I didn't know there would be such a difference in these un retouched photos.
Your comments much appreciated.
Norm


Added photo no. 3 shot with white background and made the coin darker.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2015, 12:08:32 pm »
Upper.

Whilst at first glance it appears overlit and the lower pic seems more natural and coin-like, at closer inspection there's more uniform contrast between field and devices, more details visible in the devices eg the cheek, and less distraction from field irregularities that seem to be a consequence of the angled lighting on the lower pic. Evidently the upper pic is more clinical and less sympathetic to the coin's colour - it's the coin equivalent to a police mug-shot or a dreaded passport photo - but it's consequently more informative. And I think if darkened a bit, it might look better all round.

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 02:13:08 pm »
See third photo above.  Maybe a little too dark but really looks like the coin in hand.

After doing so many different approaches on my coin photography I have a much greater appreciation of what some on this site have done with their galleries.
Photography takes a considerable amount of effort to get it "right" but I feel that I am getting closer to that goal
Thanks Andrew for your imput and any others who might have a suggestion.
Norm

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 07:21:28 pm »
I really encourage coin photographers to stop treating postprocessing of images as a sin and to avoid the term 'looks like the coin in hand'.   I believe the first image could be darkened a bit and possibly have a bit more contrast added but stopping short of the very dark third photo.  If the coin looks like that in hand, I suggest placing the hand with the coin in stronger light.  When we hold a coin in hand we wiggle it a tiny bit and see changing details.  When we photograph a coin that same amount of wiggle (accomplished by placing something under the coin that allows a minute angle change) can make quite a difference.  This, too, is not cheating.  A high relief coin does not always lay flat on a flat surface.  I accomplish this correction sometimes by having a bit of play in the mounting of the dowel stick on which I shoot my coins.  Other times a bit of clay is needed to shim up the other side of a high relief coin.  I suspect this coin is flat enough that just playing with the postprocessing controls for contrast and brightness with the coin in had to compare to the screen (but not lit by the screen) will get you what you seek.

After many tests I concluded that I was being unreasonable to be able to shoot the best shot on the first try every time.  When it happens (with nice coins) we can rejoice but don't be defeated by the ones that ask to be reshot.  Professionals will tell you that they get the best photo the first time every time.  Believe them only after you see their work.  The important skill of a coin photographer is recognizing when it is time to reshoot and when it is time to accept what we have.  If you shoot a thousand photos of anything and only show the best one, people may be fooled into thinking you are a good photographer.  Coins won't take all thousand tries.  I generally give up at half a dozen or so and tell myself not to buy coins with that kind of surfaces. 




Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 10:27:42 pm »
This is exactly what I was hoping for was to get good direction and suggestions.  My desire is be able to have pictures that I can feel good about.  Many people I share my collection with see my online gallery when I am not able to share my coins. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Norm

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 08:21:15 am »
Doug makes some excellent suggestions.  That's exactly what I do.  For some coins you'll have to be satisfied with "good enough".  I take about 10 shots of each side.  It's frustrating when you get one side perfect but can't seem to get a match for the other  :).  I also don't really care too much about having it look like it does in hand.  I'd much rather be able to see details then have a photo of a dark slug, but that is usually rare and fixable by buying decent coins!

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 09:43:19 am »
You are also blessed with having an annular lighting setup that resulted in photo 1, which Doug and I thought was fundamentally the best picture though benefiting from some later adjustment. Annular lighting is a setup many of us envy because of its consistent results and time-saving, but for practical set up reasons few of us actually have because it's often made to fit a very specific equipment setup. To have such a setup and then use it take angled photos seems rather a waste. So use your annular setup, adjust photos as needed on your PC, and try other setups when that doesn't produce good results. I used to have an annular setup with my old Polaroid and I recall it allowed me to dial down the brightness, but even if it isn't controllable you can dial it down afterward in your PC.

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 10:36:52 am »
I have tried all kinds of home made lighting set ups with some success but I finally purchased this macro ring light which is powered by AA batteries and the light is dimmable (only about $38.00).  It came with a number of rings to attach to different lenses which none of them fit my lens however I was able to modify one with my Dremel  and it fits nicely.  I just started using it.
One of my problems was trying to use automatic settings on my camera.  I now see that was a mistake and have changed to manual settings which allows me to change how light or dark it needs to be.
I was a little intimidated with the camera at first and wasn't sure how to use its many settings.
Again, Thanks for the very helpful input.
Norm

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2015, 11:51:53 am »
In general, auto settings are what we call 'good enough' while using manual settings is like saying 'I can do it better."  Decide which is what you want to say and act accordingly.  Probably 50% of people who try to do it better actually mess it up more than auto would at least at first but it is a learning process.  I am soooo thankful for digital cameras which come with 'free film'  Mistakes used to be expensive.  Now they are more fun.   

For the record, I shoot RAW files which allow easier control of color and density BUT I still make every effort to use a reasonable daylight balance, full spectrum light (the sun is best but Ott and some other bulbs are not bad) and to get exposure right without much manipulation.  I shoot on black so I don't have a lot of cleanup to do on the backgrounds and don't have a lot of flare from the white background.  The big problems are finding proper light characteristics like point size, diffusion and direction for one or multiple lights.  Many coins look OK in many light styles.  Others don't. Play with it.  Taking photos of your old coins is cheaper than buying new ones. 

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 12:12:08 pm »
Norman you have a Sony Nex5?  That's what I use.  Try fooling around with the aperture settings to get nice depth of field and use a tripod.  This works really well for coins with an uneven surface.  Many times I shoot the coin first on the P setting and then I'll compare it to different aperture settings.  Like Doug said...shooting pictures is now free and fun! You really get to know your camera too.  Enjoy!

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »
I thought you might like to see my home made camera stand and set up.
I was also wondering what photo editing  program you use with your Sony 5n.  I have to upload to one program and send to another to stitch the photos.

Norm

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 11:06:15 pm »
I thought you might like to see my home made camera stand and set up.
I was also wondering what photo editing  program you use with your Sony 5n.  I have to upload to one program and send to another to stitch the photos.

Norm

I use Photofiltre (free version). It's a pretty simple tool avoiding the complexities and cost of photoshop.

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 02:27:48 am »
Nice set up.  I use photoshop CS5 but it's overkill if all you are doing is shooting coins.

Offline *Alex

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2015, 06:58:09 am »
I, for one, am very impressed with your efforts Norman.

Alex.

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 05:20:13 pm »
I am so thankful for all the support from many on this forum.  Without this help I probably would not have continued learning and expanding my collection.
I find much satisfaction in learning more about history and the coins that are very much a part of that history.
Norm

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2016, 07:29:08 pm »
Well here I am 6 months since my post still trying to get better coins photos.  I purchased this coin from the Forum auction and the first picture is from the auction.  The second picture is with the macro lens and the  light ring and the third picture is with the standard Sony lens with blue background and finally the last picture is with the background manually removed.
I know there has been many discussions on photography but I am struggling to get quality pictures.  Maybe I will have to hire a photographer. I am shooting more silver these days and not finding a good answere.  Perhaps I am too critical.  I just want to havemy photos look as good as the coin. Comments appreciated.
Norm

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2016, 07:57:20 pm »
Not bad really.  You're shooting in macro but are you in Aperture priority, Shutter Priority or just letting the camera decide?

Personally I like shooting coins in aperture priority so I can control the depth of field.  The camera will select the appropriate shutter speed to match the Aperture. 

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2016, 10:15:22 pm »
I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING IN MANUAL MODE USING F11 AND ADJUSTING THE SPEED FOR LIGHTING.  PERHAPS I SHOULD CHANGE.
I NOW REMEMBER YOU USUALLY SHOOT WITH A BLACK BACKGROUND BACKGROUND?
NORM

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2016, 10:53:00 pm »
I actually shoot with a 18% gray background and then photoshop it black.  I put the coin on the card.  The gray helps the camera get consistant exposure and color.  It doesn't have to be exactly 18% but it shouldn't be too dark or too light.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_card

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2016, 11:35:52 pm »
I actually have a grey photo card but got away from using it.  I think I will try again.
Thanks
Norm

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2016, 05:15:39 am »
I also shoot against a grey card background. I leave my background in place rather than converting it to black or white, I find it gives a natural effect and allows you to see dark or light edges better - which otherwise might visually merge with the background. Also less work, and as I've uploaded some 10,000 coin photos online, that adds up.

Offline areich

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2016, 04:33:50 am »
I like the picture on the blue background, WITH the background in place. It would just need to be a little sharper. My CANON 600D has a program called EOS Utility, which allows me to manually focus very finely. The problem with silver that isn't heavily toned is getting a well-lit picture without any blown-out areas (the all white areas). You could additionally try to move the lighing around and try (without changing it too much) if a slighly different angle might bring out the facial details more (the eye looks better in the first two pictures).

The removed background may make pictures look more professional and look nicer on a shop or auction website but you almost always lose parts of the edges and it does look unnatural. Even most dealer photos show the coins a little ragged around the edges but of course for most coins they can't afford to spend too much time on photography.
Andreas Reich

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2016, 10:09:18 am »
After about 40 different setups this is about the best I came up with.  It looks good to me except there is a little to much white in spots.  Shot at f20 with natural light.
Norm

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2016, 10:31:04 am »
Try raising it off the card with a stand of some kind and move the camera back a bit.  I use play dough or a cork. This helps keep it sharp around the edges.

Offline *Alex

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2016, 12:55:03 pm »
Try raising it off the card with a stand of some kind and move the camera back a bit.  I use play dough or a cork. This helps keep it sharp around the edges.

I use lego.  ;D

Alex

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2016, 02:58:00 pm »

Offline NORMAN K

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Re: Photograph lighting ect. HELP!
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2016, 11:59:22 am »

 

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