Author Topic: Hadrian Seal (Read 3203 times)

Jay GT4 · « **on:** June 04, 2013, 03:34:38 pm »

Here's a piece I added to my gallery today. It was purchased as a 3rd Century Lead seal. The reason I bought it was because in the photo it looked like Hadrian. Upon getting it in hand I can confirm it must be Hadrian. His bearded portrait is very distinct. Probably an earlier portrait with the neatly trimmed beard. Is there a resource for seals? It looks like there are three letters in the right field. The one in the middle may be an "O" or

Would love to have some opinions on this piece. I'll try to post some better pictures of the letters with a deeper depth of field...

Obverse and reverse in my gallery:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-97546

Here is just the obverse:

HELEN S · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2013, 03:49:53 pm »

Do you think the letters will become more apparent if stamp in wax or blue tac ?? and yes it is Hadrian IMHO

An interesting link to read

http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/decoration/seal.htm

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:10:50 pm »

Wax impression doesn't show any more detail. Here is a macro shot of the letters:

HELEN S · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:13:47 pm »

Although you say there is no more detail it will give you the letters the correct way round mirrored image

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:20:49 pm »

HELEN S · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:25:39 pm »

Have you got metal from the object sticking above the flat surface and would that then work as a seal?

mauseus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:31:40 pm »

Hi Helen,

Quote from: HELEN S on June 04, 2013, 04:25:39 pm

Have you got metal from the object sticking above the flat surface and would that then work as a seal?

This is a positive, ie relief, impression. It is the lead that was impressed by an incuse matrix, ie the product rather than what made it, if you get my drift.

I should also add that this is a great item, sadly can't proffer an explanation of the legend traces.

Regards,

Mauseus

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:36:41 pm »

Quote from: mauseus on June 04, 2013, 04:31:40 pm

Hi Helen,
Quote from: HELEN S on June 04, 2013, 04:25:39 pm
Have you got metal from the object sticking above the flat surface and would that then work as a seal?

This is a positive, ie relief, impression. It is the lead that was impressed by an incuse matrix, ie the product rather than what made it, if you get my drift.

I should also add that this is a great item, sadly can't proffer an explanation of the legend traces.

Regards,

Mauseus

Helen, what Mauseus said. When impressed on clay it gives no better image...rather worse.

Thanks Mauseus!

mauseus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:10:47 pm »

Hi,

Can I read "HAD" behind the head where the metal runs out? Is it possible that the reading is HADRIANO?

Regards,

Mauseus

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:19:22 pm »

Quote from: mauseus on June 04, 2013, 05:10:47 pm

Hi,

Can I read "HAD" behind the head where the metal runs out? Is it possible that the reading is HADRIANO?

Regards,

Mauseus

I hadn't even looked there! I will try under a loop!

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:29:21 pm »

There is indeed lettering there!

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:46:35 pm »

Here's a shot with light from above. Hopefully this helps. I can see a T on the left side at about 10 o'clock then O at 4 o'clock.

HELEN S · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2013, 06:02:18 pm »

It looks like an N before the T the light has made a difference

Gert · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2013, 11:14:45 am »

The first photo surely resembles Hadrian, but that is a lot less clear on the other ones, especially the photo from a slight angle. The vast majority of these are later than Hadrian - in fact, I can't recall seeing a lead seal of Hadrian. I would be inclined to date this one later, at the turn of the 3rd to the 4th century. At this time a significant number of private individuals had their portrait on their personal seals, and I assume this is one of them - the portrait being bare headed. The name could be Greek ending in -OV.
Regards
Gert

SC · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2013, 02:30:06 pm »

The portrait looks slightly Tetrarchic in that last image.

Shawn

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 05, 2013, 04:39:39 pm »

Thanks for the responses guys. I agree in the later photos it doesn't appear to be Hadrian at all, however in hand rotating it around it looks like Hadrian from all angles. I think the shallow depth of field in the photos makes everything look a bit flat and plump. Is there an online gallery of seals anywhere?

Gert · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2013, 02:27:24 am »

There is practically no academic literature on these, and this scholarly disinterest is reflected on the internet. I know of no website or online database that focuses on Roman seals. Next to the usual coin databases the tesserae page on wildwinds and the sold coins archive of my Vcoins store are probably the only places where you can find a considerable number of lead seals together.

I think your seal is something like this: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=66226.0
Regards
Gert

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 06, 2013, 05:57:58 pm »

Thanks Gert. I just can't get over how much it looks like Hadrian. I want to believe!

Maybe we could impose on Joe to add a seal gallery to keep everything in one place as a searchable database...

It's a fairly inexpensive way into the ancient antiquities market and they are so unique and interesting. I'm really starting to look for these now.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #18 on:** June 06, 2013, 06:34:05 pm »

I am happy to add a gallery BUT I only add a new gallery when I have commitment from someone to fill it up (or at least get it off to a good start).

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2013, 06:36:43 pm »

Well....I can add at least one!

Gert if you give permission I would volunteer to add seals from your Vcoins sold items.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2013, 09:22:44 am »

We now have a lead seals gallery. Please fill it up.

Jay GT4 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2013, 05:53:51 pm »

Quote from: Joe Sermarini on June 07, 2013, 09:22:44 am

We now have a lead seals gallery. Please fill it up.

I can't! While the gallery is there when you try to add a picture there is no option for the seal gallery yet!

mauseus · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2013, 06:48:19 am »

Hi,

Quote from: Jay GT4 on June 07, 2013, 05:53:51 pm

Quote from: Joe Sermarini on June 07, 2013, 09:22:44 am
We now have a lead seals gallery. Please fill it up.

I can't! While the gallery is there when you try to add a picture there is no option for the seal gallery yet!

Ditto so I've currently put my eleven seas into my Antiquities gallery. HERE

I used to actively seek out lead seals but don't these days so the collection is now static.

Regards,

Mauseus

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #23 on:** June 08, 2013, 08:13:17 am »

I changed the settings on the seal gallery and it should work now. Sorry, I had it set up wrong before.

quadrans · « **Reply #24 on:** June 09, 2013, 04:59:45 pm »

Hi all

Now I put some nice Roman Seal to the new gallery
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4832

from my Gallery

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4747

regards
quadrans

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Author Topic: Hadrian Seal (Read 3203 times)