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Author Topic: Issue with Dealer  (Read 2593 times)

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Offline Meepzorp

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Issue with Dealer
« on: September 08, 2021, 03:32:00 pm »
Hi folks,

I am having an issue with a coin dealer, and I need the advice of Forum members.

On 8/6/21, I ordered 3 ancient coins from a European dealer on the Vcoins platform. I paid him in full on that date using Paypal. I am a long-term customer of this dealer. I have been doing business with him for many years (maybe 20 years or more).

The package was postmarked 8/11/21. I received it on 8/18/21. However, when I received the package, there were only 2 coins in it. One coin was missing. The value of the missing coin is approximately $100 (in US dollars). The package was not tampered with or opened and re-sealed in transit. It still had the dealer's original tape and customs/declaration sticker over the tape. The dealer never put the coin in the package. I don't know why.

I immediately (on 8/18/21) sent an email to the dealer informing him of this issue. I didn't receive a response. 5 days later, on 8/23/21, I sent him another email in an attempt to find out what happened. The following day, on 8/24/21, the dealer finally responded. He informed me that he was out of his office and that he would be back in his office "in 3 days" and that he "will check" for the coin at that time. That would have been 8/27/21.

7 days later, on 8/31/21, which was 4 days beyond the date that he was supposed to check for the coin in his office and let me know what happened, I sent him another email because I never heard from him. Again, I never received a response. 5 days later, on 9/5/21, I sent him another email because I never received a response. Again, I never received a response. That was 3 days ago.

That is where I am at now. I have sent him several emails with no response. The last communication I had with him was on 8/24/21. That was 15 days ago. He now seems to be completely and utterly ignoring all of my emails. And I don't know what to do.

I have a few questions for Forum members. First, what is an appropriate amount of time to wait and/or number of emails to send before I should take further action and try to "go up the chain of command" in an attempt to resolve this issue? Second, when that date comes, what is the appropriate action that I should take? Should I contact Vcoins and report this dealer? If yes, what is an appropriate Vcoins contact/email for resolving these types of issues?

Thank you in advance for any advice or assistance.

Meepzorp

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2021, 06:21:20 pm »
Sad story my friend. It's obvious the dealer has a problem since he's not answering you at all; bad bad customer service. My advice: open a case with paypal, using the record of all your attempts to contact him. And you should also complain to vcoins :

Code of ethics: https://www.vcoins.com/en/CodeOfEthics.aspx

Contact: https://www.vcoins.com/en/Contactus.aspx

DT

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 07:39:37 pm »
No excuse but remember it's summer vacation in Europe.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2021, 07:44:08 pm »
Contest that part of the transaction with Paypal now.  There is a time limit, and you are likely getting close to the limit to maker a claim.  File now, smooth feather later.

A frozen balance in his Paypal account will have the dealer making things right rather quickly, in my experience.

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Offline Virgil H

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2021, 11:58:16 pm »
I would definitely dispute with Paypal now. You can always reverse  it or pay again if things work out. That said, a couple of things come to mind. As Jay said, August is vacation time in Europe. Most Americans have no idea what that really means because the US never shuts down and we get almost no vacations, especially regular workers. Europeans do get them and highly value them and use them. Also, and I ran into this once myself, if it is one individual, stuff happens. You have been a customer a long time, I am willing to bet he values your business. All kinds of things can happen to a sole proprietor, family issues, Covid, etc.Dispute the charge and make things right when (and if) he shows back up. Also, do not be insulted if you get no detailed explanation as to what may have happened. Europe operates on different rules and wavelengths than the US (in my opinion, far better rules LOL, but often frustrating to Americans, like stores closing 2 hours every day for lunch, but that is how it should be). I am giving the benefit of the doubt to him right now, but also protect yourself.

Good luck,
Virgil

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2021, 01:10:38 am »
Hi folks,

Thank you to everyone for the informative replies. I really appreciate it.

Below, I will respond individually.

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 01:12:58 am »
...it's summer vacation in Europe.

Hi Jay,

I thought of that. And I know the way Europeans are regarding their vacations. But it isn't August anymore. It is September. Could he still be on vacation?

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2021, 01:15:45 am »
Contest that part of the transaction with Paypal now.  There is a time limit, and you are likely getting close to the limit to maker a claim.  File now, smooth feather later.

A frozen balance in his Paypal account will have the dealer making things right rather quickly, in my experience.

Hi RC2,

I just checked Paypal's website. I have 180 days to open up a dispute. And I have another 20 days after that to open a claim.

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2021, 01:18:29 am »
You have been a customer a long time, I am willing to bet he values your business. All kinds of things can happen to a sole proprietor, family issues, Covid, etc.

Hi VH,

I thought of that (illness, Covid, etc.). That is one of the reasons why I gave him so many days to respond.

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2021, 01:30:39 am »
Hi folks,

I just checked my Paypal account a few minutes ago. As per Paypal's instructions regarding opening up a dispute, I went to the Resolution Center. There, I noticed something that may be strange. My payment to him on 8/5/21 is listed as "completed" and "money sent". However, above that, the same transaction is listed as "pending" (5 weeks after I sent the money to him). Yes, the same transaction is listed twice, once as "completed", and once as "pending".

What does this mean? Is this normal or routine? Does it mean that he hasn't accepted the money yet because I didn't receive all 3 coins? I am confused.

Because of this confusion, I didn't continue with the dispute process.

Should I ignore this potential confusion and continue with the dispute process?

Meepzorp

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2021, 06:23:43 am »
From paypal:
DT


Offline Kevin D

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2021, 11:25:51 am »
I would call PayPal to see what is going on. Maybe the seller is in the process of issuing you a partial refund.

Offline SC

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2021, 06:03:19 pm »
Call PayPal?  Is that a thing now?

I was kicked off Paypal in 2002 because I had dared to move (read be posted) from Canada to Bosnia and still attempted to use PayPal from there.  They gave me no invitation to comment, no questions, no recourse, no contact info, just shut me down.  I sent emails and faxes (yes they had faxes back then) to every PayPal address I could find with documentary proof I was a government official posted to Bosnia but nothing.

It would be fantastic to think that it is now possible to speak to an actual PayPal service rep nowadays.  If that is true it might alter my opinion of their customer service from 0 out of 10.  But I would not bet on it...

(I did eventually get around the problem by creating another account from Canada but they lost all respect from me.)

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Offline Dominic T

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 06:48:27 pm »
Shawn, your story surely happened before October 2002, when Paypal became a serious company when the serious Ebay bought them...
DT

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2021, 07:09:56 pm »
Yeah, I would be surprised if you could get anyone on the phone from Paypal. I will be happy to hear I am wrong. I lost my Facebook account due to what I think was a hack, thousands of words written and photos posted since 2008 or so. No way to recover it and no way to actually talk to anyone. It is just all gone. They don't care in the least. The tech monopolies control 99% of the Internet and could care less about actually taking care of customers.

Virgil

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2021, 08:23:42 pm »
I closed my PayPal account within the last three or four months. I will not bore this thread with the details, but suffice to say that I wasn't using the service enough to warrant keeping the account open. We 'parted' on good terms, so if I decide I need a PayPal account in the future, I should be able to open another one.

I talked on the phone with a real live PayPal agent before deciding to close my account (this also relatively recently). The phone number I used is 888 221 1161 (from the US). The hours I have for them are 7 days 6am to midnight CST.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2021, 12:04:27 am »
Hi folks,

I decided to take Kevin D's advice and call Paypal. Yes, that is the correct phone number. I called a few hours ago. I only have time now to write about what happened.

I was on the phone for 46 minutes (about 90% of that time on hold).

As I explained above, in my Paypal account, my payment to this dealer is listed as "pending". They informed me that this is a "glitch". The dealer accepted the money a long time ago.

They advised me to begin a "dispute" with this dealer and to "escalate" it. I did that. This basically means that Paypal will contact this dealer and act as an intermediary. They will act on my behalf in an attempt to resolve this issue. The dealer has 10 days to respond. If he doesn't respond, then further action may be taken.

I really hated to do this because, as I explained above, I have doing business with this dealer for a long time (about 20 years or more). I do business with him quite frequently. He is probably one of my top 20 favorite coin dealers in the world. I fear what the "fallout" from this will be. Going forward, it will probably be awkward doing business with him in the future (if I would even want to do that after this experience).

And there is another problem. This dealer is closely affiliated with another European coin dealer that is also one of my top 20 favorite coin dealers in the world. In fact, they often send out joint bulk emails to their customers. I may have to stop doing business with the affiliated dealer also. They both specialize in selling Magna Graecia coins, which are my favorite ancient coins to collect. This dealer is really putting me in a "pickle". But I didn't create this dilemma.

In addition to involving Paypal, should I also report this dealer to Vcoins? Dominic T feels that I should. What do other Forum members think?

Meepzorp

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2021, 01:40:59 am »
Given what has happened, reporting to vcoins is probably a good idea. Perhaps they can put additional pressure on to get this dealer back in line. One thing I wonder is if other people are having similar issues. Vcoins may have some idea if this is the case if others have also reported him. Or is this a one off situation. Regarding the other dealer, would a personal note to him about this help where you express your concerns and your desire to continue doing business with him? It might help. Hopefully, he wouldn't want his business hurt by the actions of an associate he had no control over. I think there is always a potential problem with sole proprietors in that if something happens to them personally, their business suffers. I had a situation like this, as I said before, with a European dealer and it resolved itself, but I went through a lot of angst before it worked out, but I still buy coins from him today and have had no further problems.

Good luck,
Virgil

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2021, 03:49:30 am »
Contest that part of the transaction with Paypal now.  There is a time limit, and you are likely getting close to the limit to maker a claim.  File now, smooth feather later.

A frozen balance in his Paypal account will have the dealer making things right rather quickly, in my experience.

Hi RC2,

Thank you for the wise advice. You couldn't have been more right. You hit it on the head. You nailed it!

As I mentioned above, I contacted Paypal by phone earlier today. I opened a dispute, and it was immediately escalated to a claim. At 9:30 AM Europe time, after completely ignoring my emails for weeks, this dealer emailed me promising me a full refund for the missing coin.

Once I got Paypal involved, he responded lightning fast!

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2021, 03:56:00 am »
Regarding the other dealer, would a personal note to him about this help where you express your concerns and your desire to continue doing business with him? It might help. Hopefully, he wouldn't want his business hurt by the actions of an associate he had no control over.

Hi VH,

I thought about doing that. However, now that it appears that this issue is finally going to get resolved, I don't know if I should do that.

What do other Forum members think? Should I contact the other (affiliated) dealer?

Meepzorp

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2021, 07:57:38 am »
Glad I could be of help Meep.  Paypal isn't perfect, but in these instances, they are usually pretty good.  I also find they got a LOT more customer-oriented after E-bay opened their own competing service last year.
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Offline SC

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2021, 08:15:25 am »
Glad it worked out Meep.  You were totally correct in what you did.

If the dealer was just on holiday, or busy with other issues, placing an out of office message takes less than a minute as does responding with a one liner saying "sorry I am busy with an issue I will be back to you soon".

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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2021, 08:22:52 am »
I actually called PayPal once over some fake U2 concert tickets.  It was quick and easy.  They refunded the money immediately and froze the fraudsters account.  They even gave me a report to submit to the police (who contacted me almost a year later!). 

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2021, 06:43:12 pm »
Hi folks,

In case anyone is wondering, the missing coin is Caria, Trapezopolis, Augustus, capricorn/quiver, RPC I, 2850.

Here is a link to a coin of that type:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7805866

To me, it looks like the exact coin I purchased but never received. However, the dealer in the acsearch link (February 2021 auction) is not the dealer I had the issue with. I don't know how the dealer I had the issue with wound up with that coin and offered it for sale. If I remember correctly, the dealer I had the issue with had that coin for sale since at least January 2021, possibly sooner. Maybe he consigned it to the acsearch dealer?

Below is a photo from the dealer I had the issue with. As far as I can tell, it is the same coin.

Meepzorp

Offline Molinari

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2021, 07:11:25 pm »
Since it has been resolved via PayPal I wouldn’t contact Vcoins.  If it were to happen again, then I would. I wouldn’t contact the affiliated dealer either. It would be nice if the seller gave an explanation for the poor service and delays, but I’d let it go and hopefully this is just a small blur in an otherwise good, 20-year relationship.

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2021, 08:14:18 pm »

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2021, 09:17:55 pm »

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2021, 07:38:46 pm »

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2021, 09:29:50 pm »

Offline Callimachus

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2021, 09:35:55 pm »

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Issue with Dealer
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2021, 12:01:16 am »

 

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